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What do poverty rates and poor people committing crimes have to do with the obviously high percentage of black people being targeting for BS police stops like jaywalking? Seriously...
Well, the area in and around Ferguson is unbelievably economically segregated along racial lines. Race is a very strong proxy for income level there.
More importantly, the searches stem from arrests, the arrests stem from FTA warrants (95%+ of arrests in Ferguson were for FTA). The FTA warrants stem almost exclusively from people not having the economic means to pay their tickets.
Race may correlate (and all you need is correlation for a civil rights case), but poverty has very clear causative mechanisms. Which, even if every single race related impact is directly attributable to economic segregation, it does not matter. Civil rights violations do not require race to be a cause of a disparate impact, it only requires a disparate impact to exist regardless of the cause.
This is far bigger than Ferguson. Police departments all over the country are under the micro scope and the subject of racial profiling isn't going away.
We will always have racism as part of our existence. To give a badge to a racist and give power to control people's lives is not good and will get us nowhere.
One thing that has been exposed is the difference between how Blacks and White experience life. Some Whites honestly believe the only Blacks fear police are poor Black people. The ignore the fact of the many stories from the thug on the street to the president of the United States to billionaires share the same story of racism. It's not social economic.
I wonder what will people say and write about Ferguson 50 years from now. Will they be able to archive some of the racist comments made through social media? Will it matter to the next generation that we are so divided based on experience. So filled with hate that we can't listen and allow others to tell their story?
Well, the area in and around Ferguson is unbelievably economically segregated along racial lines. Race is a very strong proxy for income level there.
More importantly, the searches stem from arrests, the arrests stem from FTA warrants (95%+ of arrests in Ferguson were for FTA). The FTA warrants stem almost exclusively from people not having the economic means to pay their tickets.
Race may correlate (and all you need is correlation for a civil rights case), but poverty has very clear causative mechanisms. Which, even if every single race related impact is directly attributable to economic segregation, it does not matter. Civil rights violations do not require race to be a cause of a disparate impact, it only requires a disparate impact to exist regardless of the cause.
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Not to mention emotional distress. Contributing factors, though, are many.
Not to mention emotional distress. Contributing factors, though, are many.
Don't rule out Suicide by Police Action. Happens.
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There is a cultural disconnect. Nearly to a person, the idea of bum rushing an
armed officer and grabbing his gun, even not grabbing the gun, to middle class
Americans is preposterous. Beyond normal imagination.
To make this Mike Brown incident the center of discussion of police profiling,
city hiring practices, and the like is equally absurd. Hello. Not all whites are
racist and not all blacks are nuts. Why don't we just concentrate on the positive.
All the Michael Brown is not going anywhere. There will always be Big Mikes.
Wait. Let me get a handle on this. Al Sharpton is going to lead us in a discussion
of race relations. Exhibit A will be this 6'4'' 230 pound tackle, body slamming an
officer into his car and grabbing his gun. Now, isn't this a wonderful note on which
to start the discussion.
I don't think there's an accusation of racist e-mails, but physical evidence.
The individuals who work for the ferguson police department or ferguson city court do represent the department. They're not THE DEPARTMENT. But they definitely represent the department...I'm a former airline pilot, and do you think you ever found me in a bar in uniform....No way Jose...why? I represented the airline. Moving on.
I'm glad you did a thorough investigation of the e-mails of police departments, politicians, businesses etc and have now found racist e-mails in all of those locations...congrats. Maybe I'm sheltered, but I haven't received any racist e-mails in all my professional life...stupid spam from friends, ok...but an e-mail sent using company systems...no. never.
Both races make fun of each other? Two races? hmmmmm, sure.
And BET or the Apollo theater...Last I recall Ferguson was hiring police officers...maybe there were confused that it wasn't "Showtime at the Apollo!"?
I think you're right on the culture part...it's clearly culture that has to do with the high rate of African Americans being pulled over in Ferguson...maybe that's the police culture of Ferguson. And maybe that's the reason that constitutional rights were being violated by the police force...but we can gloss over that.
By your logic, Black people are disrespectful to police when stopped while White people are respectful. Did you think before you typed that?
You're right though, picking on a cop will get you picked on. Still trying to figure out what the guy cooling off in his car was doing to agitate the cop. He didn't let the officer illegally search his vehicle...but that didn't stop him from being arrested and charged with multiple crimes.
Um... What?
Do two race related jokes sent years ago by two employees really reflect the whole department? If you're Al Sharpton then they sure do. Does one comedian who slanders white people on BET, does he reflect the entire network? No. What world are you living in if you haven't ever seen a race related joke, esp one sent via email. I'm not condoning racism, but, we've all seen them.
Disrespectful? Yes. Though I meant to type disregardful. But it's the culture that is very disrespectful, and sadly, that does clarify African-Americans. For instance the jaywalking, 94% or whatever of blacks being fine for jaywalking does not give me the notion that these people were fined for just jaywalking, or, for just being black. Instead it gives me the notion that they were fined because of their insolent attitudes that they probably gave to the officer upon approach. If only statistics could document and record insolence. So I shall emphasize again, that the statistics against the Ferguson PD are not a portrayal of racism, but instead they are a reflection of an aggressive combating against a culture. Whether black or white.
I was in the Army for two years and worked in a factory for four. At least half of the people I worked around were black. They were every bit as racist if not more than the white people.
Do two race related jokes sent years ago by two employees really reflect the whole department? If you're Al Sharpton then they sure do. Does one comedian who slanders white people on BET, does he reflect the entire network? No. What world are you living in if you haven't ever seen a race related joke, esp one sent via email. I'm not condoning racism, but, we've all seen them.
Disrespectful? Yes. Though I meant to type disregardful. But it's the culture that is very disrespectful, and sadly, that does clarify African-Americans. For instance the jaywalking, 94% or whatever of blacks being fine for jaywalking does not give me the notion that these people were fined for just jaywalking, or, for just being black. Instead it gives me the notion that they were fined because of their insolent attitudes that they probably gave to the officer upon approach. If only statistics could document and record insolence. So I shall emphasize again, that the statistics against the Ferguson PD are not a portrayal of racism, but instead they are a reflection of an aggressive combating against a culture. Whether black or white.
Organizations (public or private) really aren't stupid enough to let a person who represents you to the public behave poorly without consequence unless management is completely inept or ignorant of the situation. When we had a bad pilot in our midst, they were terminated. When St. Ann, MO had an officer point a weapon at a protester and follow it with the phrase "I'll f*cking kill you" the officer was terminated...
You, I, or anyone else would likely say good decision making skills are crucial to an officers success and safety. An officer who engages in "poor humor" is one thing, and officer who does so at work clearly demonstrates a lack of control, reason, judgement, respect for authority, or all of the above. the fact that many reported incidents were apparently not addressed demonstrates that FPD leadership either empathizes with the officers, condones the behavior, or does not trust the public their hired to protect and serve. None of those are good outcomes, to say otherwise is idiotic.
BTW - Last I recall police are not paid to "combat a culture" their paid to enforce laws. They don't pick which laws are good or bad, they don't decide punishment, and they don't have any authority to shred the constitution.
And for our reading entertainment, here's something from the RFT: Article
I was in the Army for two years and worked in a factory for four. At least half of the people I worked around were black. They were every bit as racist if not more than the white people.
Very correct. And every one I talk to says just what you said. But society will only expose and defame white people.
Organizations (public or private) really aren't stupid enough to let a person who represents you to the public behave poorly without consequence unless management is completely inept or ignorant of the situation. When we had a bad pilot in our midst, they were terminated. When St. Ann, MO had an officer point a weapon at a protester and follow it with the phrase "I'll f*cking kill you" the officer was terminated...
You, I, or anyone else would likely say good decision making skills are crucial to an officers success and safety. An officer who engages in "poor humor" is one thing, and officer who does so at work clearly demonstrates a lack of control, reason, judgement, respect for authority, or all of the above. the fact that many reported incidents were apparently not addressed demonstrates that FPD leadership either empathizes with the officers, condones the behavior, or does not trust the public their hired to protect and serve. None of those are good outcomes, to say otherwise is idiotic.
BTW - Last I recall police are not paid to "combat a culture" their paid to enforce laws. They don't pick which laws are good or bad, they don't decide punishment, and they don't have any authority to shred the constitution.
And for our reading entertainment, here's something from the RFT: Article
I do agree with most of what you are saying. But I think it is just a little overboard to emphasize these two joking emails as they are trying to do.
That article is one-sided. It does not convey the police points of view. As if they said and did those things to perfectly obedient citizens who weren't showing them any attitude.
All policing however is not perfect. With a culture like Ferguson there will be problems. But those two emails are nitpicking.
I do agree with most of what you are saying. But I think it is just a little overboard to emphasize these two joking emails as they are trying to do.
That article is one-sided. It does not convey the police points of view. As if they said and did those things to perfectly obedient citizens who weren't showing them any attitude.
All policing however is not perfect. With a culture like Ferguson there will be problems. But those two emails are nitpicking.
But there isn't a law against attitude...and your first amendment right involves your freedom of speech without fear of censorship from the government.
BTW - on the racist e-mail thing, either I associate with different people than you do or I'm just totally oblivious...but what I can say is I don't have any racist e-malis in my personal account, and I DEFINITELY don't have any racist or derogatory e-mails in any of my business accounts.
I also find it humorous when a person's defense over racism doesn't identify how far we've come from racism...but instead attempts to identify how racist other people are in comparison to their perception of another ethnic group's own racism.
And when looking around an incredibly segregated city such as St. Louis, that divides across racial and economic lines and can say in the same sentence that race has no issue it makes a person think you don't get out much...or your eyes are wide shut.
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