Harry's closing on the heels of Mike Shannon's restaurant...

[PerseusVeil]

Originally Posted by Fishtacos

As for other places, at some point those establishments need to look in the mirror and look at themselves aa part of the problem instead of simply scapegoating. Several of these places were not offering anything that would distinguish themselves as a destination in comparison to their competitors. Right now it is the trend to blame BPV for everything. Instead of dog ate my homework people can simply say BPV.

Mile 277 is currently blaming BPV as well. They're located in Sunset Hills

Originally Posted by MUTGR

Do that many people go there on non-baseball days? I've been there a couple of times to meet people before games but would never consider just going there otherwise.

It's popular with Blues fans as well. I was there over the Christmas holiday with some relatives, and people poured in after the Blues game let out. Suburbanites also find its location convenient on non-game days, although how full it gets then I could not say.

[Brickmama]

Everyone wants to talk about the recent closures but fails to mention the ones that have opened recently or soon to open. Places like....

Yiro/Gyro
Medina
Taze
Crazy Bowls
Porano
Kitchen Sink
Shift
314
Tim Hortons
Giola's
Sugar fire
Delfino's

Mango and Sauce on the Side have expanded.

County dwellers love to focus on any negative aspect about the city and the media caters to it.

[Fishtacos]

The new openings list is a good point. However I put it more on the media for two reasons:

1) they are always desperate for a story. And the older establishments have name recognition. Easier to sell the closing of a long time well known place than a new place without that same recognition.

2). Some people are very past oriented.

Slightly related, every time an older building in the city is considered to be replaced there is a vocal group of people that automatically that says no way every time. The truth as is often the case is in the middle. Some things are worth saving and fixing up and others aren't. It all depends on the individual case.

[carloslevy]

Originally Posted by Brickmama

Everyone wants to talk about the recent closures but fails to mention the ones that have opened recently or soon to open. Places like....

Yiro/Gyro
Medina
Taze
Crazy Bowls
Porano
Kitchen Sink
Shift
314
Tim Hortons
Giola's
Sugar fire
Delfino's

Mango and Sauce on the Side have expanded.

County dwellers love to focus on any negative aspect about the city and the media caters to it.

That's not the case for all of us county dwellers.
I visit the city a lot and enjoy several locales scattered throughout the city limits.
After living in the county since 2012 I can certainly understand your viewpoint, but please know that some of us are educated, open-minded, healthy-living transplants.

[carloslevy]

Originally Posted by Fishtacos

The new openings list is a good point. However I put it more on the media for two reasons:

1) they are always desperate for a story. And the older establishments have name recognition. Easier to sell the closing of a long time well known place than a new place without that same recognition.

2). Some people are very past oriented.

Slightly related, every time an older building in the city is considered to be replaced there is a vocal group of people that automatically that says no way every time. The truth as is often the case is in the middle. Some things are worth saving and fixing up and others aren't. It all depends on the individual case.

#2 nails it.

With regard to redevelopment, what's the local vibe on Paul McKee? Favorable or unfavorable?

[STL1980]

The real story should be how Clayton is where restaurants go to die! Pomme, Pomme Cafe, Bocci, Coastal, Cardwells (still open?! wow), Libertine is actually really good, but before them, there were endless restaurants that failed. N. Central has never looked so dead. As others have mentioned, there have been far more new restaurants downtown and throughout the city than there have been in years! Union Loafers, Olio in MCREE TOWN!?! who ever thought that corner would look like that ten years later. or the grove! The media loves to stir up the old "city is failing, downtown is failing" BS because it sells to people that moved to the far flung burbs. It makes them feel better about themselves as they eat dinner at: Shoney's, Bonanza, insert any garbage chain in Chesterfield Valley... ok, except the smoke house

[mjtinmemphis]

I agree with everyone. I know in my line of work I meet a lot of people who live in the suburbs and rural parts of Missouri. They always ask about the crime and overall vibrancy of Downtown. They usually say that no one goes downtown except for Cards and Blues games. I try not to look at them crazy but I have to tell them that there are numerous concerts, shows, 90k workers and 15k people who live there.

Cities all across the country have grown their culinary scene and in some cases it pushes out some old well known names. A coworker was talking about how he would live downtown if the there was a coffee shop or a bakery open everyday. I couldn't believe how sincere but misguided some people are.

Clayton is not downtown!!! Some people don't want to believe that. There is very little reason to visit clayton unless you have business there or you are going to the arts show. Last I heard the restaurant count was under 40. Some guest who book hotels in clayton are told that the area as the best of St. Louis. Don't get me wrong, Clayton is a nice suburb with a nice downtown.

The sports crowd is only so big. There can only be so many who capitalize on and benefit. BPV is spreading it thin. There is so much more to St. Louis than sports or else I wouldn't be able to live here.

[Fishtacos]

What "some people" like about Clayton are:

Clean
Walkable
Perception of safety
Location

Clayton is perceived to be a place for bankers and lawyers, day time power lunch crowd. Ghostly at night. Overpriced mediocre restaurants. ...although there have been some mich needed improvements in this regard recently.

With regards to downtown, St. Louis has a perception problem because it is way too fragmented. The perception is that St. Louis has lots of low to mid rise buildings in a sprawl fashion. If you are a visitor from elsewhere, people want one centralized area for hotels, restaurants, attractions where it is all easily walkable and/or simple short transit. That is why you hear national sports media race endlessly over random example place Indy, because the set up for them is good in this regard. In St. Louis, it is often about telling someone to go to some neighborhood that is not well connected to neghboring areas, and transportation to get there isn't the best. Way too much fragmentation. People from out of town want it easy. Then make it easy.

I do agree with the inaccurate perceptions of local suburban and rural types who infrequent downtown and the city. They just watch the local news where everything is negative because it sells and it is easier than doing the work on something else.