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I lived in Brentwood over 15 years ago. I used to love it there. Now it seems so crowded and congested with the TONS of development within that 15 years (gosh I feel old). I agree with Billiken above that they didn't use a lot of foresight with their planning. However, there are a lot of conveniences there (which I am grateful for, being 2 miles away) such as Whole Foods, Target, Trader Joe's, Arhaus, among others. When we moved back 2 1/2 years ago we were primarily looking there, but it is amazingly pricey now. You really don't get much for the $$. They do have a reputation for very good schools, and it is very centrally located for anywhere you want to go. I would not consider Brentwood walkable at all, unless you want to walk along very busy main roads. I used to jog around the area 15 years ago but would never do that now because of the traffic. I am also a little less than impressed with the school facilities, though it's the education quality that ultimately matter.
Generally I don't consider St. Louis as a whole a hugely walkable city, though some of the communities are (many of those are in the city, though). I have lived in 8 or so cities and would put St. Louis as average/below average with walkability. I guess that is why I like my area so much. Very walkable. We have 2 cars, use one infrequently, and could get by without one if we really had to. I am sure we will not be able to replicate that when we move, but it has been a very nice amenity to have.
I read something before moving back here about St. Louis's walkability. It said if locals see people walking they think you are either homeless or that your car had broken down. I've only gotten that once. My family and I were walking to the pool once summer day, and someone asked us if our car was broken down and if they could give us a ride. We still laugh at that! I don't that is the general consensus, though. We constantly have people walking around our area to restaurants, the store, parks, etc.
U City has some very nice areas and beautiful homes, but I would agree the schools are pretty bad. I'm not sure if you know, but St. Louis is a huge Catholic school community. I'm not sure of the percentage that go to Catholic schools, but it sure seems huge. All of the parishes we have attended have NO youth groups. We now go to the Basilica (Heaven on Earth, so make sure to visit it even if you are not Catholic), and there is nothing for our kids there, either.
Sounds like you come from and are looking for a more urban area. I could never recommend anywhere in the city of St. Louis, personally. Crime just seems too bad. (I'm sure there will be plenty of contentious comments about that). I love the Central West End, but with the horrible crime this past week, I could not, with good conscious, recommend moving there. It seems as though you might have to make the choice between walkability and schools. I'm not sure St. Louis can offer both. Like I said Maplewood/Richmond Heights sounds like the best bet to me, but I am very biased because that is my location.
I'm not sure how to feel about the school ratings on realtor.com and elsewhere. Ladue is probably one of the nicest areas in St. Louis, and the schools are not rated that highly. (Saw a nice house in your price range in that area - on a cul de sac, too). Great area, but not walkable at all.
If you are buying a house be sure to make a very fast decision. It seems as though the houses go either the first day or even before they go on the market. A new reno in my area sold before it went on the market - and the person was from out of town and had never seen it. For some reason the deal fell through, and it sold as soon as it went on the market - above list price with multiple offers. Not to scare you, but that seems to be the market here at the moment. Maybe fall will slow down a little. I imagine there are some very exhausted realtors out there right now!
Any desire to rent before you buy to see what areas you like, especially if you think you're going to be here long term? Many do. I don't recommend it personally, as we lived in an apartment for 6 months (with 3 kids) while building our house in metro Detroit. I am high strung and a germaphobe, so I hated it. Some people think it is worth it, though.
I grew up in St. Louis and now live on the near north side of Chicago (where I walk to work downtown). There are very few areas of St. Louis that are truly walkable, especially with good public schools. Your best bets for that are going to be Clayton or Webster. I'd focus on the school districts and look at Ladue, Parkway, and Rockwood. St. Louis does have very nice, affluent suburbs in the western central corridor with good schools. It is car centric though, like most cities in the country.
StL City is very walkable by American standards. But you're in a conundrum because the most walkable and vibrant neighborhoods are generally in the City, which has terrible schools. The rest of the StL metro is...not very walkable.
Many areas in South City are very safe and walkable, but like Chicago, the schools are a drawback. Most folks utilize magnet or Catholic schools.
I like old town St. Charles. It's a safe area with decent schools, just up the freeway from Creve Coeur. I'd recommend a visit though, because it is a very old area. Colonial actually.
There are other walkable places in the StL area, but the commute to Creve Coeur would be outrageous. Edwardsville is great, but I'd never make that commute. Probably 45+ minutes each way.
There are some excellent schools in the city, both public and private. Don't rule it out because of the refrain that "the schools are bad". Some are, some aren't.
There are some excellent schools in the city, both public and private. Don't rule it out because of the refrain that "the schools are bad". Some are, some aren't.
How do you navigate what's good and bad? We have the same problem here with good and bad schools in the city. It's exhausting to navigate and here there is no guarentee I could get both kids in the same school bc its either based on test scores or lottery or both. And I'd like to avoid the additional expense of private school.
Generally the schools are not good in the city. I would not live in the city (at least St. Louis City - maybe NYC or Chicago, but not SLC), especially with young kids. We almost did that because we, too, wanted a more urban environment with walkability, etc. I am so very glad we did not. We have met a lot of people, with and without kids, trying to get out of the city because of the crime (and the attrition rate of police is so bad they cannot adequately patrol the areas). Generally speaking the county has much better resale, much better schools, and much better services. You can get areas that are more urban in the county, but they are not as plentiful here as in Chicago. Clayton, U City, Richmond Heights, Maplewood are all in the county but have a more urban feel. Shrewsbury, also in the county, has been a really hot area lately, maybe because it's in Webster schools. I personally find that area depressing, but that is just me. Plus, walkability is nonexistent. Also, it might be a challenging drive to Creve Coeur.
From what I gather with the new diocesan campaign, they are trying to make Catholic schools much more affordable for families, if that is what you mean when referring to private schools. Many families can no longer afford private education, so they are having to close schools down. To thwart that they are trying to make private education more affordable. To put it in perspective: larger families in the diocese have tuition bills approaching six figures. Amazing. Just think of that! Something to look into if you end up not happy with the schools in the area you choose. Schools can be very subjective. Some people we know moved to Maplewood from Webster because they did not like Webster schools. However, Webster schools are considered to have a very good reputation. One thing about St. Louis is that there are a lot of school choices.
Personally, if you want more urban, I would stay south of Delmar, east of 1-170, north of 44 (as much as possible), and in the county. Realtors are not supposed to tell you that. We have been interviewing a lot lately for our upcoming listing at the end of the year, and pretty much all of them have said that "off the record". That narrows it down quite a bit, I know. However, you get urban, the county, better schools, better walkablitity, and an easier commute. That pretty much includes south U City, Clayton, Brentwood, Webster Groves, Richmond Heights, Maplewood, Shrewsbury, and Rock Hill. Kirkwood if fine, it's just further out and you will have to drive a lot. If you can do without urban, then go west.
If you really hate suburbs and driving, you might really want to focus on the above areas, frankly. I personally know from experience what it is like to choose an area you HATE (Detroit and Houston come to mind). It does not make daily life enjoyable if you are not happy with your area. Convenience and quality of life, which is subjective, is really priceless, especially with busy family lives. Before my husband was remote he was 2 miles from his office-that is why we chose this location. Detroit was only a 20 mile commute, but frequently ended up being a 2 hour drive one way. Our family time is so much better here. We can walk anywhere we want, even to the grocery store. Everything we need is at the most 3 miles (Children's Hospital is about 3 miles for us). It all comes down to the lifestyle you are looking for.
Sorry to ramble on about this. I have moved a lot and have very strong feelings about choosing a location, especially since it has so much to do with quality of life. Just make a list of things non-negotiable in a location and house and go from there.
I'm not quite understanding the city hate from someone who lives in Maplewood...the city is literally bordering Maplewood and it's not like it all comes crashing down once you cross a street. The crime problem in STL is pretty much the same story as in Chicago, and that's about all I'll say about it (I'm also a Chicago area native).
I am a city dweller and I can absolutely relate to the "exhausting to navigate" feeling of the public schools. There are good ones, but as you pointed out, dealing with tests and lotteries is no fun. We'll probably at least participate in the lottery and see what happens when we get there...but I'm not counting on it. I'm Catholic, though, and fine with sending my kid to a good Catholic school. Saved about 50% on the price of a house vs. Kirkwood, so I can justify $5k/year in tuition through 8th grade.
I'm moving from Chicago Southland suburbs to St. Charles next month! We bought in Crest over Katy Trail, I just saw a home listed in the price range you like.
4205 Napa View Ln,
Saint Charles, MO 63304
Schools are good, the Katy Trail is right there at the bottom of the subdivision & good for walking and biking. It's not really walkable for grocery shopping or to school, from what I saw - but I'm used to that.
Yes, Maplewood borders the city limits. No, crime does not suddenly get worse at the end of my street, where the city begins. However, it does get worse the further you go into the city. I love St. Louis Hills, and almost bought a house there. I might consider there, but cannot think of another place in the city I would go (plus, that area is pricey). But the other areas we looked such as CWE and Tower Grove, I would not even think about considering now. (I have had some horrible experiences in St. Louis City and have known others who have. I'm glad you have not, and I hope you never do). My kids love to bike, and I would not feel comfortable with them roaming around St. Louis City or going to the park by themselves. They can do that now, however. It's a preference, really. It's what you are comfortable with and what you are looking for in a lifestyle and for your family. I wouldn't live in St. Louis city, but that is just me. You've had good luck, and I am very glad for that. I would love to see the city thrive. (I cannot understand why it doesn't make more progress than it does with the possiblities/location). It has great potential and some wonderful houses-just fabulous architecture. We all have different experiences, and that is what this conversation is about. I'm sure this is confusing to the poster to hear all of this banter, but hopefully it will help her find what areas are most appealing to her. A realtor cannot tell you these things, so you have to gather all of the information from as many sources as possible. Trust me, after 8 moves I know how hard it is to try to navigate new cities when you know nothing about them. It's overwhelming and extraordinarily stressful. I just hope this isn't causing too much angst.
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