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Old 06-07-2017, 10:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
Name one.
You name one first. I will then name two.
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:08 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,309 posts, read 6,002,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I condemn anyone who burns a U.S. flag. I don't care who they are. Now I have a question for you. What is YOUR point? Why are you bringing antifa and BLM into this when I am only talking about Confederates?
Because you call them traitors. Not all, but certain BLM and certain Antifa burn flags and say they want to overthrow the US. And by the way both include white folks. I assume they are traitors too?

Just trying to establish your parameters in that regard.

I posted previously I have a relative who fought and died in the civil war and he considered the Confederates "rebels" and "traitors." Yet they were welcomed back after the war, those that lived, as Americans. They were no longer traitors. As long as they turned in their guns and said their oath, they were Americans. And their offspring fought and died for the USA in our many wars since: Spanish American war, WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, etc. et al.

I'm wondering why 150 years later they are traitors again.
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:09 PM
 
58,132 posts, read 50,834,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
There must be a similar appeal for feminists, LGBT and Blacks?
Yes, and it has been mentioned. The same can be said of how there is an appeal for White conservatives for the Republican Party. However, it is only called pandering if it has to do with Blacks.
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:12 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis View Post
You name one first. I will then name two.
As I thought.
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
As I thought.
You didn't name one.

I am not going to waste time going back and forth with someone who isn't capable of thinking about the question I asked. If you can't name a White supremacists then you can't dialog.

Have a nice life.
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:17 PM
 
58,132 posts, read 50,834,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
Because you call them traitors. Not all, but certain BLM and certain Antifa burn flags and say they want to overthrow the US. And by the way both include white folks. I assume they are traitors too?

Just trying to establish your parameters in that regard.
But this discussion is about the Confederates and why we shouldn't have Confederate monuments. And that alone. I called them traitors because that is what they are. Wage war against one's own country, that is being a traitor. Flag burning, as despicable as it is, is protected in the Constitution. Waging war against the USA, however, is treason. Leaving the U.S. Army to fight for an enemy combatant (that is what Robert E. Lee did) is a treason offense.

I suspect you only brought up the two groups to deflect from why there is such a disdain for Confederates. If you want to talk about BLM and Antifa, a separate thread would suffice.
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:17 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,309 posts, read 6,002,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
And Republicans pander to White conservatives. What is the difference?
The point was one of hypocrisy: while democrats pander to blacks for votes, they love it when LGBT types gentrify black urban neighborhoods - thereby forcing blacks out of urban neighborhoods. A counter-point would be how the GOP does it, and by the way, I'm not so big on the establishment GOP these days. Maybe with immigration.
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:21 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,309 posts, read 6,002,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
But this discussion is about the Confederates and why we shouldn't have Confederate monuments. And that alone. I called them traitors because that is what they are. Wage war against one's own country, that is being a traitor. Flag burning, as despicable as it is, is protected in the Constitution. Waging war against the USA, however, is treason. Leaving the U.S. Army to fight for an enemy combatant (that is what Robert E. Lee did) is a treason offense.

I suspect you only brought up the two groups to deflect from why there is such a disdain for Confederates. If you want to talk about BLM and Antifa, a separate thread would suffice.
You didn't respond to this part of my post, which is the part I'm most interested in hearing your response:

"I posted previously I have a relative who fought and died in the civil war and he considered the Confederates "rebels" and "traitors." Yet they were welcomed back after the war, those that lived, as Americans. They were no longer traitors. As long as they turned in their guns and said their oath, they were Americans. And their offspring fought and died for the USA in our many wars since: Spanish American war, WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, etc. et al.

I'm wondering why 150 years later they are traitors again."

Why, exactly, are we fighting that war again?

The timing of all of this is suspicious.
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:32 PM
 
58,132 posts, read 50,834,546 times
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Quote:
I posted previously I have a relative who fought and died in the civil war and he considered the Confederates "rebels" and "traitors." Yet they were welcomed back after the war, those that lived, as Americans. They were no longer traitors. As long as they turned in their guns and said their oath, they were Americans. And their offspring fought and died for the USA in our many wars since: Spanish American war, WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, etc. et al.

I'm wondering why 150 years later they are traitors again.
I'm not here to talk about what they were "considered". I am here for the bottom line. That matters to me more than anything else, period. The fact is, the Confederates were Americans that fired on/declared war against their own country. The CSA was never formally recognized by any nation, especially not the USA. These were U.S. states in rebellion against the USA. They fired AGAINST the USA, they were enemy combatants that technically belonged to the USA, while declaring themselves part of the CSA.

Of course they were welcomed back. Here is the thing. It doesn't change what they did. It does not change anything. What they still did was treasonous. Under normal circumstances, in accordance to the Constitution, a punishment would be in order.

The Confederacy called themselves rebels. Fire against you own country, that is a traitor act. Robert E. Lee swore an oath to this nation. He turned his back on it for the enemy.

I look at the bottom line, period.

And aside from being people who fired against this country, why were the Confederates firing against this country? They wanted secession so bad. Why? Because they feared an end to slavery. This is noted many times in the Articles of Secession. People writing and openly admitting that if the South couldn't keep slaves, then the South was doomed. It didn't matter that Lincoln didn't plan on abolishing slavery. Many people weren't thinking rationally. When the Confederate Constitution was drafted, it was written to protect the right to own slaves. It was explicit about that. The stars and bars of the Confederate flag, William Tappan Thompson came up with that. His words below.

Quote:
As a people, we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause.[5]… Such a flag…would soon take rank among the proudest ensigns of the nations, and be hailed by the civilized world as THE WHITE MAN'S FLAG

As a national emblem, it is significant of our higher cause, the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity, and barbarism. Another merit in the new flag is, that it bears no resemblance to the now infamous banner of the Yankee vandals.
Again, why should we, in 2017, be paying tribute to Confederates?
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:33 PM
 
58,132 posts, read 50,834,546 times
Reputation: 17809
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
You didn't respond to this part of my post, which is the part I'm most interested in hearing your response:

"I posted previously I have a relative who fought and died in the civil war and he considered the Confederates "rebels" and "traitors." Yet they were welcomed back after the war, those that lived, as Americans. They were no longer traitors. As long as they turned in their guns and said their oath, they were Americans. And their offspring fought and died for the USA in our many wars since: Spanish American war, WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam, etc. et al.

I'm wondering why 150 years later they are traitors again."

Why, exactly, are we fighting that war again?

The timing of all of this is suspicious.
I just did. You added more and I didn't notice until it was too late, hence I put that part of your post in quotes.
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