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Old 06-09-2017, 09:53 PM
 
1,400 posts, read 695,257 times
Reputation: 812

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
And are you aware the Republicans, not Democrats, are the ones spreading nonsensical racist screeds like
The only thing racist here is your interpretation. You seem to look so far down on blacks that you assume that they are the only ones on welfare. You do realize that there are vast numbers of poor whites throughout the rural areas of the state that are relying on welfare as well, right?
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Old 06-10-2017, 07:25 AM
 
208 posts, read 206,427 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
In the mid-19th century there were various groups dedicated to the liberation of black people, and few formed for the cause of white liberation.
This drives to the question of the legitimacy of citizenship for the Africans that were transported cargo-style to America. Of course, these African-derived people did have the opportunity to liberate themselves, as you say, by leaving America and repatriating to the African continent. That option exists today too. This gets back to the moral question of forcing the integration of African people onto European people and their nations.
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Old 06-10-2017, 07:46 AM
 
Location: London U.K.
1,890 posts, read 904,192 times
Reputation: 4020
I don't really have a dog in this hunt, as although I'm a proud southerner, it's south London, in the southern part of the U.K. that I hail from.
However, I've always been interested in history, ours, yours, Russia's, Argentina's, you name it, everyone's.
To that end, wherever I am, I try to check out any history in that area, e.g., when I went to Canada, I had a look around the 1812 monument in Queenston, Ontario, some time later I visited Mount Pleasant, S.C., where there is another monument to the War of 1812.
Boston has more Revolutionary War stuff than you can shake a stick at, and in Forsyth Park, Savannah GA, there are monuments to those who died in the Spanish-American War, but for me, what blew my doors off, was initially driving down Monument Avenue, Richmond VA., then parking my rental, and walking back to check out Bobby Lee, J.E.B. Stuart, Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, Jeff Davis, and rather incongruously I thought, Arthur Ashe, the tennis player, although it speaks volumes for changing attitudes that his statue is there, although I'm sure the local 'crackers' weren't over the moon when the statue was originally mooted.
I reiterate, it's not my place to argue one way or the other, but providing the statues are just seen as marking history, not applauding slavery, I'd like to see them whenever I'm in the U.S.
On a further controversial note, there is a statue in Goirle, Netherlands, of a WW2 Wehrmacht soldier, Karl-Heinz Rosch, he was in a farmyard in Goirle, when British troops attacked it in 1944, and he was ordered to take cover.
Noticing 2 children, Jan and Toos Kilsdonk, playing in the farmyard, he scooped one under each arm and got them to safety.
As he ran toward the cellar after this, a British grenade landed right on him, blowing him to pieces.
As far as I know, his is the only memorial in Europe depicting a WW2 German soldier.
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Old 06-10-2017, 08:10 AM
 
Location: StlNoco Mo, where the woodbine twineth
8,352 posts, read 6,007,805 times
Reputation: 12347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean-Francois View Post
I don't really have a dog in this hunt, as although I'm a proud southerner, it's south London, in the southern part of the U.K. that I hail from.
However, I've always been interested in history, ours, yours, Russia's, Argentina's, you name it, everyone's.
To that end, wherever I am, I try to check out any history in that area, e.g., when I went to Canada, I had a look around the 1812 monument in Queenston, Ontario, some time later I visited Mount Pleasant, S.C., where there is another monument to the War of 1812.
Boston has more Revolutionary War stuff than you can shake a stick at, and in Forsyth Park, Savannah GA, there are monuments to those who died in the Spanish-American War, but for me, what blew my doors off, was initially driving down Monument Avenue, Richmond VA., then parking my rental, and walking back to check out Bobby Lee, J.E.B. Stuart, Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, Jeff Davis, and rather incongruously I thought, Arthur Ashe, the tennis player, although it speaks volumes for changing attitudes that his statue is there, although I'm sure the local 'crackers' weren't over the moon when the statue was originally mooted.
I reiterate, it's not my place to argue one way or the other, but providing the statues are just seen as marking history, not applauding slavery, I'd like to see them whenever I'm in the U.S.
On a further controversial note, there is a statue in Goirle, Netherlands, of a WW2 Wehrmacht soldier, Karl-Heinz Rosch, he was in a farmyard in Goirle, when British troops attacked it in 1944, and he was ordered to take cover.
Noticing 2 children, Jan and Toos Kilsdonk, playing in the farmyard, he scooped one under each arm and got them to safety.
As he ran toward the cellar after this, a British grenade landed right on him, blowing him to pieces.
As far as I know, his is the only memorial in Europe depicting a WW2 German soldier.
Your last sentence surprised me, I was not aware of that. I thought for sure there would be a statue or monument for Rommel and Von Richthofen but when I checked out pictures of their graves on findagrave all they had were simple flat headstones. Von Richthofen was a WWI ace that shot down 80 planes and you can barely see his headstone. If he was an American there would be a huge monument next to his grave and maybe a street or bridge named after him.
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Old 06-10-2017, 08:18 AM
 
208 posts, read 206,427 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean-Francois View Post
...but providing the statues are just seen as marking history, not applauding slavery, I'd like to see them whenever I'm in the U.S.
Yes. The removal of the confederate symbols is simply wrong on that basis alone. You could draw a comparison to the removal of confederate symbols to when Islamist's destroy Christian, Hindu, or other symbols of the land that they find offensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean-Francois View Post
On a further controversial note, there is a statue in Goirle, Netherlands, of a WW2 Wehrmacht soldier, Karl-Heinz Rosch, he was in a farmyard in Goirle, when British troops attacked it in 1944, and he was ordered to take cover.
Noticing 2 children, Jan and Toos Kilsdonk, playing in the farmyard, he scooped one under each arm and got them to safety.
As he ran toward the cellar after this, a British grenade landed right on him, blowing him to pieces.
As far as I know, his is the only memorial in Europe depicting a WW2 German soldier.
Wasn't aware of this. Interesting. I'll have to look it up. No doubt there were numerous other heroic German soldiers that fought in the war.
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Old 06-10-2017, 08:54 AM
 
1,400 posts, read 695,257 times
Reputation: 812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean-Francois View Post
I don't really have a dog in this hunt, as although I'm a proud southerner, it's south London, in the southern part of the U.K. that I hail from.
However, I've always been interested in history, ours, yours, Russia's, Argentina's, you name it, everyone's.
To that end, wherever I am, I try to check out any history in that area, e.g., when I went to Canada, I had a look around the 1812 monument in Queenston, Ontario, some time later I visited Mount Pleasant, S.C., where there is another monument to the War of 1812.
Boston has more Revolutionary War stuff than you can shake a stick at, and in Forsyth Park, Savannah GA, there are monuments to those who died in the Spanish-American War, but for me, what blew my doors off, was initially driving down Monument Avenue, Richmond VA., then parking my rental, and walking back to check out Bobby Lee, J.E.B. Stuart, Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, Jeff Davis, and rather incongruously I thought, Arthur Ashe, the tennis player, although it speaks volumes for changing attitudes that his statue is there, although I'm sure the local 'crackers' weren't over the moon when the statue was originally mooted.
I reiterate, it's not my place to argue one way or the other, but providing the statues are just seen as marking history, not applauding slavery, I'd like to see them whenever I'm in the U.S.
On a further controversial note, there is a statue in Goirle, Netherlands, of a WW2 Wehrmacht soldier, Karl-Heinz Rosch, he was in a farmyard in Goirle, when British troops attacked it in 1944, and he was ordered to take cover.
Noticing 2 children, Jan and Toos Kilsdonk, playing in the farmyard, he scooped one under each arm and got them to safety.
As he ran toward the cellar after this, a British grenade landed right on him, blowing him to pieces.
As far as I know, his is the only memorial in Europe depicting a WW2 German soldier.
In general, I'd say that Americans lack perspective. I find our lack of appreciation for historical sites to be quite shallow, to the point where it is actually rather embarrassing.

Years ago I had a chance to take a tour of the Eagle's Nest, a Nazi retreat near Berchtesgaden. Thinking back, I guess there were no statues, busts, and if my memory is correct, not even pictures of the Third Reich era.
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Old 06-10-2017, 10:40 AM
 
6,071 posts, read 6,936,776 times
Reputation: 4776
Interesting that St. Louis is a metro of nearly 3 million people amd the only topic that is getting attention is one on a stupid confederate thing. Some are trying to share how good it is and how lazy Black people are (intending to be disrespectful to Blacks) and the others are trying to convince people it needs to go.

There are many fun things happening here that in another city forum would have 4 and 5 pages of comments but all that St Louis can find to talk about is this?
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Old 06-10-2017, 11:26 AM
 
1,805 posts, read 1,231,454 times
Reputation: 979
Elliott Davis has been talking about this and how basically it's a waste of time removing this monument when the city has BIGGER issues that need immediate attention.

Same thing with the New Orleans one. That city has the same big problems St. Louis has that should be getting focus instead of some old piece of concrete.

People wonder who is behind removing this stuff? George Soros imo. Trying to erase what little southern history is left in the south and border south such as what we are seeing in St. Louis and New Orleans and other states.

I wonder if they would try getting the Sterling Price statue in Little Dixie taken down? I don't that would go over too well with the locals there.
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Old 06-10-2017, 11:46 AM
 
3,728 posts, read 2,701,113 times
Reputation: 2965
White supremacists have been the worst part of the country since it was created, it's worth talking about stamping it out.
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Old 06-10-2017, 12:24 PM
 
58,132 posts, read 50,847,560 times
Reputation: 17810
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
White supremacists have been the worst part of the country since it was created, it's worth talking about stamping it out.
I agree wholeheartedly. I am in agreement that issues like violent crime should be addressed too. New Orleans and St. Louis have alot of problems. However, they represent two totally different issues that have little to do with each other. Since we are on the subject of Confederate monuments, I only suspect that violent crime is brought up to deflect from this issue. Stuff like White supremacy needs to be stamped out. Those Confederates are a glaring symbol of it.
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