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Old 06-13-2017, 01:45 PM
 
208 posts, read 206,020 times
Reputation: 250

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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Well, considering that you suggested that I should be sent to Africa/American citizenship should be revoked, I understand why.
That, of course, is not what I said. Shame on you too.
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Old 06-13-2017, 02:30 PM
 
58,133 posts, read 50,707,289 times
Reputation: 17795
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthCitySam View Post
That, of course, is not what I said. Shame on you too.
Actually, it is what you said. You expressed your desire for me to be expatriated to Africa, with a bribe, under the condition that my citizenship be revoked. I said that if it requires my citizenship to be revoked, forget it. You obviously wanted me out of the USA. Do not lie to me.
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Old 06-13-2017, 02:35 PM
 
58,133 posts, read 50,707,289 times
Reputation: 17795
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
I actually respect your opinion on this. I imagine it is offensive to black people who are descendents of slaves. I still think perhaps some middle ground can be found. Descendents of Confederates are Americans too. My ancestors fought and some died for the Union. Some of my ancestors subsequently fought and died alongside of confederate ancestors in the wars since: World War I, WW II, Korea, Viet Nam, etc, et al. They were all Americans.

I also think there is a dangerous slippery slope with this. I continue to think the politicians putting emphasis on this are both pandering and they are deflecting from the serious issues facing urban populations, primarily black populations. I have nothing new to say so I will bow out of this thread.
Well, I'm viewing this based on historical data that I have read. Whenever I read something from history, there are many things I consider. Among them is the cause that many things represent. One solution I've mentioned is that the statues should be put in museums.

In this case, I don't think there is any more pandering to urban populations than to suburban and rural populations. The only difference is who panders to them. As for the Black population, more Blacks live middle class standards of living than not. Many problems in the inner cities have been there going back to 1900. Nothing new. To me, taking down Confederate statues never represented pandering to me. I looked at it as "we're moving on now".
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Old 06-13-2017, 02:52 PM
 
58,133 posts, read 50,707,289 times
Reputation: 17795
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1grin_g0 View Post
Well, you can't simultaneously argue that democratic policies have been successful, and then turn around and say that conditions haven't improved much. That's one of the reasons that Hillary lost the election. She had to convince blacks that things were still so terrible, and at the same time convince them how wonderful another 8 years of Obama would be. That messaging is so fake. It is not a surprise that she wasn't able to turn out the Black vote.
Actually, it can work both ways. On one hand, some policies pushed by Democrats did lead to more Blacks getting a better standard of living. On the other hand, those who are left behind are not doing that great. One thing to understand is this. The rot and decay you see in the ghettos, this is a product of what is left behind. After Blacks who became successful, or were already doing okay, they left after housing discrimination ended. They went else. It's the same story in every major city. Blacks who had the means and the talent left the inner city.

My father's neighborhood during the 60s was already one of the more sketchy parts of his city. However, there were more Black middle class and working class people living there. After housing discrimination was made illegal, alot of Blacks with the means moved to other neighborhoods. Soon after, Blacks eventually earned the means and the talents to do better for themselves left the neighborhood. Who is left behind? Thugs, hood rats, and then poor people trying to survive. The best and brightest will continue to leave.

One hand, some things have been a success. On the other hand, many who succeed just want to get out. And there are those still left behind.
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Old 06-13-2017, 06:50 PM
 
3,716 posts, read 2,688,256 times
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St. Louis City was always a union stronghold so having a confederate memorial there doesn't even make any sense. They should move the memorial to some place in the county, Creve Couer Lake Park or something.
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Old 06-13-2017, 07:15 PM
 
208 posts, read 206,020 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
...You expressed your desire for me to be expatriated to Africa
Uh, no. Again, you are misrepresenting. I presented a hypothetical. A hypothetical is a "what-if" scenario. A hypothetical is a method to frame an argument in a debate.

So apparently hypotheticals are now considered "hate speech".
"A Marxist system is recognized by the fact that it criminalizes political opponents."~ Solzhenitsyn

Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
...I said that if it requires my citizenship to be revoked, forget it...
This is the answer I expected.
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:13 PM
 
1,309 posts, read 994,386 times
Reputation: 1760
Wow boo hoo to the white supremacists who are losing their monument to white trashdom. Go to Stormfront and cry along with the Neo-Nazis still upset there aren't monuments to Hitler and the Nazis in Europe.
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:53 PM
 
1,732 posts, read 1,198,590 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
St. Louis City was always a union stronghold so having a confederate memorial there doesn't even make any sense. They should move the memorial to some place in the county, Creve Couer Lake Park or something.
I don't see the big deal. The rest of Missouri was either neutral or pro Confederate in most areas.

Also being a border city at least 4,000 St. Louisans fought for the Confederacy. That is still a good size chunk so having a memorial still makes sense. I wouldn't mind it being out in the county someplace nicer and more deserving of the monument though. Hell with the city and the hoodlums that run and roam it now. Why not just put a Michael Brown monument in place of it the size of the ones of Kim IL Sung and Kim Jong IL have in North Korea outside their mausoleum? Fitting for the thugs there and then they can worship a great man in their minds!
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:47 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,309 posts, read 5,986,838 times
Reputation: 4350
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
St. Louis City was always a union stronghold so having a confederate memorial there doesn't even make any sense. They should move the memorial to some place in the county, Creve Couer Lake Park or something.
Apparently the Missouri Civil War Museum wants it and claims to have a deed conveying ownership of it:

New twist in the saga of where the confederate monument will be moved to | FOX2now.com

Previously this museum said they wanted it but the city said they couldn't have it:

http://fox2now.com/2017/06/12/missou...rate-memorial/

"“We're simply asking them to turn it over to full ownership of Missouri Civil War Museum and we will protect it and preserve it and find an appropriate place for in the future for it,” Trout said.

That’s where the problem lies. Koran Addo, chief of staff for St. Louis Mayor Lyda Krewson, says they will not allow anyone to take total ownership of the monument without allowing the city a say in how it's displayed in future."

This shows this is so much political grandstanding by the hyper-partisan leftists in control of the City of St. Louis.
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Old 06-13-2017, 11:15 PM
 
1,732 posts, read 1,198,590 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
Apparently the Missouri Civil War Museum wants it and claims to have a deed conveying ownership of it:

New twist in the saga of where the confederate monument will be moved to | FOX2now.com

Previously this museum said they wanted it but the city said they couldn't have it:

Missouri Civil War Museum wants to take ownership of Confederate Memorial | FOX2now.com

"“We're simply asking them to turn it over to full ownership of Missouri Civil War Museum and we will protect it and preserve it and find an appropriate place for in the future for it,” Trout said.

That’s where the problem lies. Koran Addo, chief of staff for St. Louis Mayor Lyda Krewson, says they will not allow anyone to take total ownership of the monument without allowing the city a say in how it's displayed in future."

This shows this is so much political grandstanding by the hyper-partisan leftists in control of the City of St. Louis.
I didn't like Slay at all as he was a liberal, but he wasn't a kook like this Lyda Krewson is. She really is a fruit loop.

She made the news a few months back as a council woman as she introduced a ordinance that would basically have outlawed the ownership of most modern firearms in St. Louis city and made laws much stricter than state laws which clearly is not allowed per MO statues and the constitution of the state of Missouri which Slay wouldn't be dumb enough to sign anyway if somehow it were passed but even the others on the council knew it was BS and it went nowhere. Simply trying to get her name out there.

She comes off as arrogant also.

One can hope that hopefully next election enough of the blacks in the city can realize they're simply being played and vote for someone else.

If the city council and herself get out of hand, hopefully the state lawmakers tighten the screws just like they did when St. Louis city wanted to raise the min wage on their own, further killing what few job opportunities there are for many of the lower working class in the city.

This is why most in the county don't ever want to see a merger. The financial disaster would be a nightmare.

It's as almost if St. Louis City is like the Missouri version of North Korea and St. Louis county is south Korea. The City is so out of touch and blocked off from the rest of the state and insulated in their own ways.

St. Louis county while it is Democrat, granted not total Democrat control, The government operates for more effectively than St. Louis city which is basically a one party total control government and many of its citizens are stuck in poverty and high crime with city leaders that give no solutions except focus on some 100 year old monument and themselves. Basically the same as the DPRK almost. Like the DPRK it's leaders and the few elite in government and inner circles live the good life and talk BS while a large number of Stl residents are stuck in poverty or near poverty and high crime with little being done about it.
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