St. Louis to remove Confederate monument (Florissant, Ferguson: quality of life, vs., stats)

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by glamatomic

You've said a lot in your posts that I agree with and made some valid and interesting points. I did have to address this however.

As you may be aware, St. Louis City is a separate entity entirely from St. Louis County; so when the FBI does the crime reports it only takes into consideration the city, not any of the suburbs. The central core of most cities throughout the U.S tends to have a higher crime rate.

Therefore, when it comes to St. Louis, a more accurate measure of the crime rate is to compare metro area statistics with other metro areas. Comparing it that way, St. Louis (metro) is ranked safer than the Atlanta metro.

I know it's a separate entity. And back to the topic at hand. The fact that St. Louis is separate from the county will make for an interesting situation. St. Louis city doesn't want that statue. St. Louis County, however, does.

When it comes to cities, we are only talking about the city limits. If we want to talk about metros, then we have to say explicitly metros. Comparing city to city is what we were currently on.

I really don't know how St. Louis metro is, other than some sketch suburbs like Ferguson and East. St. Louis.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

I know it's a separate entity. And back to the topic at hand. The fact that St. Louis is separate from the county will make for an interesting situation. St. Louis city doesn't want that statue. St. Louis County, however, does.

When it comes to cities, we are only talking about the city limits. If we want to talk about metros, then we have to say explicitly metros. Comparing city to city is what we were currently on.

I really don't know how St. Louis metro is, other than some sketch suburbs like Ferguson and East. St. Louis.

No, the Civil War museum which sits in St. Louis County wants it. I doubt any county elected official would publically support relocating it to a public space in St. Louis County.

I'm guessing relatively few locals, myself included, have been to the civil war museum.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

Here in Florida it's the same way with the Hispanics and blacks are having problems. South of me is Ft Myers which has a bad crime issue with blacks. Then over in Leigh Acres there is crime issues with the Hispanics.

Miami has a different situation. Miami is a Republican city. Has a Republican mayor. Has had Republican mayors. While Hispanic crime does take place, Black crime is much worse in Miami despite being in the minority. Hispanics, by and large, do much better in Miami than Blacks. Blacks do quite bad in Miami. In fact, Miami's Black population is one of the poorest in the USA.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by MUTGR

No, the Civil War museum which sits in St. Louis County wants it. I doubt any county elected official would publically support relocating it to a public space in St. Louis County.

I'm guessing relatively few locals, myself included, have been to the civil war museum.

Even so, this still shows alot of distrust between city and county.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

I don't know much about Tulsa, but it seems to still have a somewhat rural mindset though. Very rural just outside cities like that. Cities like Atlanta, Houston, St. Louis, Memphis are older and all have urban sprawl and a bigger influence and less rural mindset than Tulsa or Omaha.

Oklahoma is not a very old state. Will it change? Who knows. Cities like Tulsa, Omaha are still basically in the middle of nowhere, cow towns. Just outside of the cities there is hardly nothing.

Oklahoma might be rural outside of the cities. But the cities are where alot of Blacks in Oklahoma live. And Blacks don't seem to be doing well in those cities, at least compared to everyone else.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by 1grin_g0

Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago? I honestly don't believe that democratic policies are working for minorities (especially blacks), I wish I could say differently. Asians seem to be doing fairly well regardless of where they reside, better than whites in many cases. Blacks, whites, latinos, are all not doing too great in the Rust belt. I think curbing immigration would help everyone that is currently here. Democrats seem to want to let in lot of refugees, not good. At least Trump is trying to bring back manufacturing jobs.

Correction, I should have said most cities. Most cities in the USA are Democratic, and most are doing better than Atlanta, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Detroit, or Cleveland. However, Raleigh, Democratic city with a large Black population, is rated one of the top cities for African-Americans. Blacks are doing better in Raleigh than in Cleveland or Detroit. Seems like if you get a good education, you do better. Atlanta is rated as being much better for Blacks than Detroit, Cleveland, or St. Louis.

The Rust Belt in general, Blacks aren't doing well. Blacks aren't doing well in many places in the Deep South. Places that don't get alot of immigrants you can still find alot of Blacks not doing well. And manufacturing is not going to be what it used to be. Thanks to automation, and companies looking for a cheaper way of doing things, manufacturing has changed. Fewer and fewer people are needed. Nothing can be done about that. Trump can't do much about that. Curbing immigration won't help much. Mississippi has very few immigrants. It also has one of the highest unemployment rates in the nation.

And there is something else. There are many who see Blacks as "too troublesome" to hire. Even if the illegals get deported, even if immigration is curbed, there will still be some who will be apprehensive about hiring Blacks. If an immigrant is preferred over a Black person, nothing can be done about that outside of a boycott. In Alabama, it was suggested to use prisoners to pick the crops. When that is considered an option, it does not matter.

Asians seem to do well in many places, it depends. In Minnesota, there are many Hmong people living there. There have been issues with poverty and gang activity. On the other hand, there have been high rates of success among Korean and Japanese in places like New Jersey and California.

If the idea is "Blacks should vote Republican" I don't buy it. I can find places run by Republicans and there are many Blacks in those areas still doing badly.

A better question is this. Where are Blacks doing the best, economically, socially, etc.?

[1grin_g0]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Miami has a different situation. Miami is a Republican city. Has a Republican mayor. Has had Republican mayors. While Hispanic crime does take place, Black crime is much worse in Miami despite being in the minority. Hispanics, by and large, do much better in Miami than Blacks. Blacks do quite bad in Miami. In fact, Miami's Black population is one of the poorest in the USA.

Nice try, but just because a city has a republican mayor does not mean that it is a republican city. That is precisely why you need to include the 2016 presidential general election results. From what I could find, there is no evidence to support your claim that Miami is a republican city.


Check out the Miami city limits and look at each state house district (108, 109, etc.) on the map below.

District Explorer


Then look at the 2016 general election results (listed by state house district, 108, 109, etc.) found below. You will find that Miami is a democratic city, and it's not even close!

http://www.miamidade.gov/elections/l...-who-voted.pdf

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by 1grin_g0

Nice try, but just because a city has a republican mayor does not mean that it is a republican city. That is precisely why you need to include the 2016 presidential general election results. From what I could find, there is no evidence to support your claim that Miami is a republican city.


Check out the Miami city limits and look at each state house district (108, 109, etc.) on the map below.

District Explorer


Then look at the 2016 general election results (listed by state house district, 108, 109, etc.) found below. You will find that Miami is a democratic city, and it's not even close!

http://www.miamidade.gov/elections/l...-who-voted.pdf

And yet, you were the one bringing up cities that had Republican mayors. At least be consistent. You still haven't answered my questions regarding Atlanta vs St. Louis, and my question about middle to middle upper class Blacks. Stop dodging my questions and just answer them.

[1grin_g0]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

Correction, I should have said most cities. Most cities in the USA are Democratic, and most are doing better than Atlanta, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Detroit, or Cleveland. However, Raleigh, Democratic city with a large Black population, is rated one of the top cities for African-Americans. Blacks are doing better in Raleigh than in Cleveland or Detroit. Seems like if you get a good education, you do better. Atlanta is rated as being much better for Blacks than Detroit, Cleveland, or St. Louis.

The Rust Belt in general, Blacks aren't doing well. Blacks aren't doing well in many places in the Deep South. Places that don't get alot of immigrants you can still find alot of Blacks not doing well. And manufacturing is not going to be what it used to be. Thanks to automation, and companies looking for a cheaper way of doing things, manufacturing has changed. Fewer and fewer people are needed. Nothing can be done about that. Trump can't do much about that. Curbing immigration won't help much. Mississippi has very few immigrants. It also has one of the highest unemployment rates in the nation.

And there is something else. There are many who see Blacks as "too troublesome" to hire. Even if the illegals get deported, even if immigration is curbed, there will still be some who will be apprehensive about hiring Blacks. If an immigrant is preferred over a Black person, nothing can be done about that outside of a boycott. In Alabama, it was suggested to use prisoners to pick the crops. When that is considered an option, it does not matter.

Asians seem to do well in many places, it depends. In Minnesota, there are many Hmong people living there. There have been issues with poverty and gang activity. On the other hand, there have been high rates of success among Korean and Japanese in places like New Jersey and California.

If the idea is "Blacks should vote Republican" I don't buy it. I can find places run by Republicans and there are many Blacks in those areas still doing badly.

A better question is this. Where are Blacks doing the best, economically, socially, etc.?

I would say that Maryland is at or near the top of the list, specifically near the Beltway/DC area. The federal government has much to do with that. I should point out that the public schools in PG County are absolutely terrible, nevertheless, blacks have managed to do quite well in that area, atleast from an economic standpoint.

[1grin_g0]

Originally Posted by green_mariner

And yet, you were the one bringing up cities that had Republican mayors. At least be consistent. You still haven't answered my questions regarding Atlanta vs St. Louis, and my question about middle to middle upper class Blacks. Stop dodging my questions and just answer them.

Yes, I brought up the cities with republican mayors and the 2016 general election results! You only brought up the mayor for Miami. You can't tell if a city is dem or repub by simply looking at the mayor. But if a city has a republican mayor and voted for Trump, then the city clearly leans republican. Nice try.