U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri > St. Louis
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-21-2017, 12:04 PM
 
3,713 posts, read 2,687,347 times
Reputation: 2952

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by flynavyj View Post
The people who seceded or fought with the confederacy are deemed and identified as Americans.
Against their will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthCitySam View Post
He is just one black person that embraces the Confederate flag. There are others. Photos: They're black and they're proud of the Confederate flag
I don't know why finding a few black people who agree with you is considered some kind of rhetorical masterstroke.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-21-2017, 01:15 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
694 posts, read 1,197,992 times
Reputation: 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthCitySam View Post
He is just one black person that embraces the Confederate flag. There are others. Photos: They're black and they're proud of the Confederate flag
Quote under the first photo in the gallery -

The above image has not been Photoshopped. It’s an unaltered picture of an actual person — North Carolina native H.K. Edgerton during a stop in Canton, Ga. This man is arguably the most frequently sighted member of a rare group: black Americans who support and defend the Confederate battle flag.

Once again, you made his point better than he did.

And you make some very good points flynavyj, and you make it hard to disagree. But as MUTGR has stated, once you enter a slippery slope, it is very hard to stop the slide. For instance, you mentioned statues could be limited to museums and Confederate sections of cemeteries. While community owned cemeteries are still free to display the Confederate flag, as of last year, the 147 cemeteries managed by the NPS, VA, and Dept of Army, are forbidden to allow the flying of what they call the "Confederate flag" on a fixed flagpole. Prior to this new order, the 'Confederate flag' could be flown on state Confederate Memorial Day's and the National Memorial Day, on a fixed flag pole subordinate to the US flag. That option is no longer allowed.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IN10313.pdf

A cemetery populated with Confederate dead, in my opinion, is one of the very few places I do not understand why anyone would have a problem with the flag flying on most days, let alone twice a year. But even that is now too offensive to bear?? Who will or could legally take the statues for public display when you can't even hoist the Naval Jack in a Confederate cemetery anymore?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2017, 04:42 PM
 
1,730 posts, read 1,196,831 times
Reputation: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by SW Missouri Dave View Post
Quote under the first photo in the gallery -

The above image has not been Photoshopped. It’s an unaltered picture of an actual person — North Carolina native H.K. Edgerton during a stop in Canton, Ga. This man is arguably the most frequently sighted member of a rare group: black Americans who support and defend the Confederate battle flag.

Once again, you made his point better than he did.

And you make some very good points flynavyj, and you make it hard to disagree. But as MUTGR has stated, once you enter a slippery slope, it is very hard to stop the slide. For instance, you mentioned statues could be limited to museums and Confederate sections of cemeteries. While community owned cemeteries are still free to display the Confederate flag, as of last year, the 147 cemeteries managed by the NPS, VA, and Dept of Army, are forbidden to allow the flying of what they call the "Confederate flag" on a fixed flagpole. Prior to this new order, the 'Confederate flag' could be flown on state Confederate Memorial Day's and the National Memorial Day, on a fixed flag pole subordinate to the US flag. That option is no longer allowed.

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IN10313.pdf

A cemetery populated with Confederate dead, in my opinion, is one of the very few places I do not understand why anyone would have a problem with the flag flying on most days, let alone twice a year. But even that is now too offensive to bear?? Who will or could legally take the statues for public display when you can't even hoist the Naval Jack in a Confederate cemetery anymore?
Well in Missouri the Confederate cemeteries no longer fly the Battle Flag thanks to One Term Bob. Since then they have never been put back up despite Democrats and Republicans promising to pass a bill to let it fly again.

It flew for one day under Matt Blunt at Pilot Knob but that is it.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2017, 05:01 PM
 
2,887 posts, read 2,304,465 times
Reputation: 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthCitySam View Post
the confederate flag is simply being used as a prop by which the Marxists can ply their trade of creating societal fracture.
This is your brain on Rush Limbaugh.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2017, 05:08 PM
 
8,930 posts, read 4,347,109 times
Reputation: 12497
Just think of the money wasted on these junk items. The old South shouldn't be memorialized. Put it in a museum if you long to see it.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2017, 05:27 PM
 
208 posts, read 205,966 times
Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
I don't know why finding a few black people who agree with you is considered some kind of rhetorical masterstroke.
The Confederate flag is embraced by some black people. It's just a fact. It's more than just a few though. These are only a small sample of those black people that have happened to have been highlighted by some news sources. But the great majority of blacks, although they may not embrace the Confederate flag, simply don't really care about it. And good for them. They are not burdened with something that happen centuries ago.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2017, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
7,782 posts, read 5,816,609 times
Reputation: 5286
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOforthewin View Post
Similar to what is happening in New Orleans is about to happen in St. Louis with the removal of the Confederate memorial monument. It's sat there for almost 100 years without a problem and all of a sudden about a year ago someone gets the idea to remove it. Just like back in 2002 the removal of the Confederate flags at the state historic sites. They flew there for years without any issues until One Term Bob took them down.

When will this stop? Hell here in Florida there are not many traces of the old Confederacy left.All across the south and border states they're being removed.

Mayor's office exploring avenues to remove Confederate monument | KSDK.com
Good.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2017, 10:16 PM
 
6,057 posts, read 6,907,734 times
Reputation: 4751
I grew up in St Louis and didnt know it was there. Today in Forest Park, there was a major protest and support for it. Most of the support where not people from the city.


Keep that stuff in the back room at a museum and out of our city. Many White Supremacists groups have used the confederate flag as a symbol for hate and oppression. That fact can't be denied. When someone mentions a confederate monument being in a city like St Louis many would say it needs to go like 40 years ago. Considering the citys largest racial group is Black its useless. It does nothing for unifying any city or help our image as a forward thinking city.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-23-2017, 10:35 PM
 
1,400 posts, read 691,965 times
Reputation: 812
I view the Confederate flag as a symbol of resistance, much like a Trayvon or Michael Brown T-shirt is used by the Black community.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-24-2017, 02:07 AM
 
3,158 posts, read 3,364,264 times
Reputation: 1433
It is sad, sad because all it is is another mark of cheap politics. Just another example of history being written by the "winners". There were two sides to that war and both sides should be allowed to have remembrances.

Memorials are just that - memorials, remembrances of important happenings in our history. If we are to learn and remember our history, we need to acknowledge both sides of the issues. We can't hide half the war in a dark closet and then explain why we fought it. Our grandchildren would be asking "but who were they?"

I have seen that monument and it is beautiful, beautiful in its simplicity. And the message carved onto it is inspiring to read. It should not be torn down. We should be able to hold our heads up and say "Not here". We don't have to do something just because someone else did it somewhere else.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Missouri > St. Louis

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top