St. Louis to remove Confederate monument (Republic, Canton: legally, shop, bill)

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by RisingAurvandil

Because we don't memorialize the flag of any other country with which we've waged war.

I personally don't care if it stays. It doesn't affect me.

However, some elements of the Confederate message are not admirable in modern times. You don't see Germans memorializing the Third Reich.



That's ridiculous. Most state flags are essentially meaningless, being created long after the war. We fly the American flag because, surprise, we are all Americans.

Also Germany had Denazification too, and to an lesser extent Austria did. While there was reconstruction after the civil war including in Missouri at the state level, even with the Drake Constitution it wasn't to the extent the Denazification was, plus the NSDAP was outlawed too, while in America Democrats eventually got back into power in the southern states.

If there wasn't Denazification to the level there was, I think you would see a bit more traces of it left behind such as more museums and some of the ideologies left such as Germany and Austria being more nationalistic than they are today. It seems in the overall mood they hold shame and afraid to show pride for their countries. I don't know if Germany/Austria will ever fully recover from WW2. It totally changed Europe.

[SouthCitySam]

These efforts to ban the Confederate flag and monuments can always be traced directly back to the (((Marxists))). The Marxists don’t care about these things other than the fact that they can use them as a tool to stir up social strife between groups and ultimately to the complete upending of civil society. Black people in America are nothing more than just another group for the Marxists to exploit to achieve their ends.

[FrankMiller]

Moderator cut: orphaned quoteThe Confederates were called upon to attack their nation, not defend it.

Originally Posted by SouthCitySam

These efforts to ban the Confederate flag and monuments can always be traced directly back to the (((Marxists))). The Marxists don’t care about these things other than the fact that they can use them as a tool to stir up social strife between groups and ultimately to the complete upending of civil society. Black people in America are nothing more than just another group for the Marxists to exploit to achieve their ends.

Black rioters should design a flag and play bugle calls before they set fire to stuff, and then southerners will hail them as patriotic heroes.

[SouthCitySam]

Originally Posted by FrankMiller

Black rioters should design a flag and play bugle calls before they set fire to stuff, and then southerners will hail them as patriotic heroes.

There are a number of black people who embrace the confederate flag actually. But again, the confederate flag is simply being used as a prop by which the Marxists can ply their trade of creating societal fracture.

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by SouthCitySam

There are a number of black people who embrace the confederate flag actually. But again, the confederate flag is simply being used as a prop by which the Marxists can ply their trade of creating societal fracture.

What percentage?

There are a handful who are placed in front of the camera.

Many Blacks want to know where people stand so they can react appropriate.

Blacks loving the flag as racists or White Supremacists, not!

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by SouthCitySam

There are a number of black people who embrace the confederate flag actually. But again, the confederate flag is simply being used as a prop by which the Marxists can ply their trade of creating societal fracture.

Actually the confederate flag was famously used as a prop by Southerners to create societal fracture.

[SouthCitySam]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

Blacks loving the flag as racists or White Supremacists, not!

I'm linking to a post to a news site. So this may get cut by the mods.
Black student hangs Confederate flag, sparks debate - NY Daily News

Assuming it is cut by the mods, Google "Byron Thomas Confederate Flag"

Thoughts?

[SW Missouri Dave]

Originally Posted by SouthCitySam

I'm linking to a post to a news site. So this may get cut by the mods.
Black student hangs Confederate flag, sparks debate - NY Daily News

Assuming it is cut by the mods, Google "Byron Thomas Confederate Flag"

Thoughts?

My thought would be you just used an article that made his point for him

"Byron Thomas has drawn nearly 70,000 views since he posted a video online in which he acknowledges: "I know it's kind of weird because I'm black."

Wouldn't be weird if it was normal would it?

And thanks to MUTGR for trying to make a sensible argument on this thread. You made some good points.

[flynavyj]

There often seems to be a mutual respect between soldiers, even from two opposing countries. Many times this doesn't emerge until years after the conflict has ended, but there seems to be an understanding that the people on side A were willing to kill and die for their belief while the people on side B were willing to kill and die for theirs.

Those of us who are now running around in this world, built by our ancestors (on both sides of history) have inherited the full story. Some of it's good, some of it's not. The truth (that many dislike) is that history is written by the victors, in this case the North. Lincoln and many republicans of the day were more concerned with healing the nation as opposed to forcing reparations from the seceding confederate states. End result, the people of the south were readmitted back into the union as full citizens, their children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren didn't suffer generations of second-class status or financial ruin as many "losing" sides do following military conflict.

As to monuments, they often seem "odd" but to an extent understandable. The people who seceded or fought with the confederacy are deemed and identified as Americans. Their sacrifice for their cause was as real as the sacrifice by any american, despite that their cause has some very worrisome qualities.

Additionally, the confederate flag (or the flag recognized today as the confederate flag) really wasn't overly popular following the civil war. And I think that's where much of the "problem" with the flag comes from. Following the war, the flag was part of "history". Southerners weren't flying it around, northerns weren't flying it around. But, it's made several resurgences in history, and that's the part that many "flag supporters" don't seem to understand. When Bo Duke was running the flag on his car, no one really paid attention, that's a happy go-lucky, everyone gets along part of television. But when people start waving the flag around klan rallies, or displaying it proudly while trying to deny American's their fundamental and GOD GIVEN rights, the flag doesn't have that "Bo Duke" feeling.

Now I'm not going to say the flag in and of itself was racist...but the folks who used the flag over the last half century...they were sure did some racist stuff! And the reason many southern states seceded from the union was done so the rich of those states could OWN people....and do with them AS THEY PLEASED!

And to be honest, the monuments would likely do very well in museums, or confederate portions of the cemetery. They'd like be viewed more there than they are at the parks in which they currently sit.

[SouthCitySam]

Originally Posted by SW Missouri Dave

"Byron Thomas has drawn nearly 70,000 views since he posted a video online in which he acknowledges: "I know it's kind of weird because I'm black."

He is just one black person that embraces the Confederate flag. There are others. Photos: They're black and they're proud of the Confederate flag