Tell me about DeBaliviere Place! (St. Louis, Washington: condo, crime, how much)

[rayona]

I'm intrigued by some of the homes on Washington Terrace and Portland Place. The school ratings don't really seem to fit with the socioeconomic level of the houses--where do kids from that area go to school? Would you consider it walkable? What's the stereotype of the local resident? Is it a good area for a young family​? Thanks!

[zach_33]

Just being a stickler on neighborhood, it looks like Debaliviere Place is between Debaliviere (west) and Union (east) which would exclude Portland Place. Fwiw, Portland Place and Westmoreland Place, just to the east of Union, are two of the most spectacular urban streets I have ever seen in person. Safe to say they are unmatched (locally) in scale and grandeur, and the residents there are mostly 1 percenters.

To the west of the there in Debaliviere Place is a mixed bag of multi-unit and single family. Some of the single families on Kingsbury, Washington and Waterman are amazing, and most are huge, but others have been neglected over the years (unless things have changed appreciably since I moved away in 14) and look like an invitation to spend $1 million or more on a restoration.

The multi-families are also a mixed bag. High rise, mid rise, low rise. Some very well kept and luxurious, others kind of run down. Students, lifers, yuppies - you name it. Not a terrible area for a family but you always hear about some crime at or near that metrolink stop, and on the route that connects it to North St. Louis (up Debaliviere and north of Delmar).

[rayona]

Thanks! So what would you call the area East of Union?

It's pretty incredible how much house you can get in that area for around a million dollars. Is there any reason for that other than the general St. Louis market?

[STL1980]

The reason the cost is lower is because it's in the St. Louis School District, but no one on these two streets sends their kids there, all likely to private schools. Westmoreland and Portland Places are arguably the prettiest streets in the midwest. It's very safe with an armed guard that patrols the two streets and steps from Forest Park and the CWE. The two streets are located in the Central West End. The houses are also HUGE, many have their own ballrooms.

[rayona]

So would you say that Westmoreland and Portland Places are more desirable than Washington Terrace? Comparing these two homes specifically:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3.../3009581_zpid/
vs
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3.../2989372_zpid/

[zach_33]

It's a judgment call, but I would say the home on Portland Place trumps the one on Washington, for three reasons - closer to Forest Park, closer to CWE shops (Maryland & Euclid being the center point of those shops), further from Delmar. There is also a certain cache to being specifically on those two blocks of Portland Place and Westmoreland Place. Those are literally the poshest addresses in the city of St. Louis. At $1.3 mil I might suspect there is some deferred maintenance, but I could be wrong! The upkeep on those places has got to be absurd. Imagine what it costs to (for example) upgrade all your windows. Jaw dropping. Absolutely amazing homes,though, both of them.

[zach_33]

Originally Posted by rayona

It's pretty incredible how much house you can get in that area for around a million dollars. Is there any reason for that other than the general St. Louis market?

It really is incredible if you are coming from a more expensive market. You would definitely have to pony up for private schools, that is one draw back STL1980 already mentioned. The weather kind of sucks in the summer if dislike heat and humidity. It doesn't have big city amenities like NYC or LA, or even like Dallas or Boston, but it has enough amenities to satisfy most people.

Probably the biggest things (that really irked me in the 12 years I lived in St. Louis) was the lack of prospects for rapid appreciation of your house investment. Like, with $1.3 million today you could buy a small bungalow in Palo Alto or a one bedroom condo in NYC or a 10,000 SF mansion on Portland Place. 10 years from now, the places in Palo Alto and NYC will have likely doubled or tripled in value while your mansion on Portland Place will maybe go up 30-50%. Of course, I am making all this up as an illustration, but you get what I mean.

[rayona]

Yes, as a New Yorker those homes and that price tag are jaw-dropping. Something comparable is at least 10 times, and often 20 or 30 times, as much up here. Sometimes the ability to order Ethiopian at 3AM doesn't seem worth that much of a mark up.

So what would be the best private high schools in St Louis, in terms of SAT scores, college placement and rigor? And how hard is it to get in? Getting into a private school around here is about as tough as getting into Harvard.

[zach_33]

For elementary you'd probably want to go with New City since it is right around the corner from there. Great little school. Progressive community. Maybe $20k per year per kid. As long as the kid tests solidly into the upper half aptitude-wise and the parents seem supportive and you can afford it - you're in. Forsythe academy is probably a step up on rigor, and a tad more expensive - that is a couple miles west just across the border in Clayton. I had a kid in New City for a couple years - it is awesome there.


For middle and high school you'd probably want to go with Burroughs. It's the most highly regarded academically. Hard to get in. They do have a rep for beating the kids up a bit with homework and what not, but if you absolutely, positively have to get your kid competitive enough for the Ivies, I'd go with Burroughs.


Others here will have other ideas with no less merit I am sure.

[chicagobear]

Portland and Westmoreland are a little better than Washington Terrace and Kingsbury. Everyone goes to private schools. John Burroughs and MICDS in Ladue and various Catholic high schools.