STL City and county continue population loss... (St. Louis: apartments, lofts)

[glamatomic]

Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock

Poor planning. With the Mississippi River on one side, and a bunch of teeny tiny suburbs on the other three sides, why on earth are all those tiny suburbs that surround St. Louis were allowed to stunt the city's growth is beyond me. They should have been annexed by the City of St Louis over a hundred years ago. Those little suburbs would barely exist in the 1st place if not for St. Louis. The population of St. Louis should be close to a million, instead of about a little more than 250,000. Does St Louis even have any professional sports teams left besides the Cardinals?

To be fair, your history is a bit off.

As I'm sure you're aware, St. Louis City and County legally separated in 1876.

However, with the exceptions of some already established towns such as Florissant (arguably settled before St. Louis), Kirkwood, etc, etc, many of the populated areas of the County were not at that time incorporated.

In fact, aside from a few who incorporated in the late 1800s, most started incorporating from the 1930s onwards.

The initial pushes to incorporate tiny 'cities (suburbs) within St. Louis County was more a matter of necessity than politics- it quickly became apparent to housing developers during the interwar years that getting services for their new housing tracts from the County was an impossible task- at that point in time, the County on the whole lacked adequate resources and it was actually beneficial for them to allow the new suburbs to incorporate and self govern (St. Louis City, being legally "divorced" from the County would have had no input either way).

Later (postwar) pushes for areas to incorporate were often more for political reasons than that of resources and services.

As early as the 1950s however (just two decades after the majority of the tiny suburbs on the edge of the city began incorporating), area planners did recognize how problematic it was becoming, especially on the north side and since many of the 'cities' had less than 1000 residents.

In fairness, a number of the once incorporated cities have since merged into others, or simply become unincorporated in the last half century, although I am sure that most area residents will agree that a lot more need to go.

Anyway, I hope that bit of history helps you better understand how the situation at hand came to be - it started with the ridiculous City/County separation, and the incorporated cities growth was then out of St. Louis City's control.

[pdm_ad]

With all the projects happening right now in the city many people I know feel that 2018 will finally be the year we see a turn around in residential numbers. I have never seen this level of construction taking place in the city and I am encouraged though we have a long way to go still after decades of disinvestment.

Another big project announced, 5 vacant blocks to be transformed:

https://nextstl.com/2018/03/big-plan...ayette-square/

Chouteau Avenue will be transformed into a dense, mixed-use urban center along the northern edge of the Lafayette Square neighborhood if current plans move forward. The 5-block proposal by Bill Odell and HOK shows high-density residential at the southeast corner of Jefferson and Chouteau.

[goat314]

Originally Posted by pdm_ad

With all the projects happening right now in the city many people I know feel that 2018 will finally be the year we see a turn around in residential numbers. I have never seen this level of construction taking place in the city and I am encouraged though we have a long way to go still after decades of disinvestment.

Another big project announced, 5 vacant blocks to be transformed:

https://nextstl.com/2018/03/big-plan...ayette-square/

If North City was stable, even just stagnant the city would be growing again. While the Central Corridor is booming (relatively) and the Southside is beginning to stabilize, the Northside is hollowing out in a manner that keeps the city as a whole losing population. There has to be a point where some effort is put into stabilizing North City, if not I think St. Louis will find itself bottoming out at around 250,000. I hope I'm wrong, but I think the North-South Metrolink and progressive planning/focusing on rebuilding real density is the only hope for the city.

[glamatomic]

Originally Posted by goat314

If North City was stable, even just stagnant the city would be growing again. While the Central Corridor is booming (relatively) and the Southside is beginning to stabilize, the Northside is hollowing out in a manner that keeps the city as a whole losing population. There has to be a point where some effort is put into stabilizing North City, if not I think St. Louis will find itself bottoming out at around 250,000. I hope I'm wrong, but I think the North-South Metrolink and progressive planning/focusing on rebuilding real density is the only hope for the city.

I'm hoping that the new NGA headquarters slated for the North side will have some effect in stabilizing at least the immediate area (once it gets built).

I haven't heard much about Paul McKee's Northside regeneration project in ages, either. I wonder if it is actually happening, or just a pipe dream?

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by glamatomic

I'm hoping that the new NGA headquarters slated for the North side will have some effect in stabilizing at least the immediate area (once it gets built).

I haven't heard much about Paul McKee's Northside regeneration project in ages, either. I wonder if it is actually happening, or just a pipe dream?

They've allowed the northside to deteriorate to the point where it is forcing all of those who can to leave. Many are moving to north county.

A construction worker told me the other day that some of the NGA employees have bought alot of the property in and around Old North St Louis. Gentrification is coming but how fast is what no one knows.

My prediction is we will see the numbers reverse sometime within the 20s. It would be nice to see an all out boom until the city hits 500k again.

[glamatomic]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

They've allowed the northside to deteriorate to the point where it is forcing all of those who can to leave. Many are moving to north county.

A construction worker told me the other day that some of the NGA employees have bought alot of the property in and around Old North St Louis. Gentrification is coming but how fast is what no one knows.

My prediction is we will see the numbers reverse sometime within the 20s. It would be nice to see an all out boom until the city hits 500k again.

Yes, the suburban migration has been happening for a long time. Initially with the "white flight", and in more recent decades it seems like the neighborhoods in the North have been continuing to empty into the suburbs.

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by glamatomic

I haven't heard much about Paul McKee's Northside regeneration project in ages, either. I wonder if it is actually happening, or just a pipe dream?

As far as I can tell he's just sitting on the land until he can sell it for a profit.

[glamatomic]

P.S. I also wanted to add that St. Louis's and Missouri's slow population growth is nothing new. Even back in the early 1950s, Missouri ranked somewhere in the 30s out of the (then) 48 states for population growth. Even the St. Louis Metro had relatively slow growth compared to cities South and West.

With that said, this seems to have been a trend for almost 70 years- so it isn't one that is going to reverse overnight.

I see huge potential in the City and Metro though, which I hope will be realized in my lifetime.

[glamatomic]

Originally Posted by FrankMiller

As far as I can tell he's just sitting on the land until he can sell it for a profit.

It sadly seems to be the case, doesn't it?

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by glamatomic

It sadly seems to be the case, doesn't it?

I think that is part of the plan. He shouldn't be able to get a way with it.