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Old 04-08-2008, 10:44 AM
 
24 posts, read 128,537 times
Reputation: 28

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I'm moving to St. Louis in June, and I have already gotten several helpful comments on this board. I'm currently leaning towards buying something in the city with my wife and 2 year old son. I have gotten peoples thoughts on the "safe" vs. not so safe areas, and places we should look. Now I'm trying to gather data. I've gotten the crime stats off the st. louis police website.

SLMPD: Crime Statistics (http://www.slmpd.org/crimestats/index.htm - broken link)

The problem with these is that I have no baseline for comparing them. Does anyone know of any statistics that are adjusted by "population" or some other reasonable number. Some neighborhoods have very low scores, but then I look on the map and they appear to be three block neighborhoods. What would also be helpful is a map of the city with the crimes plotted out. Ann Arbor, where I currently live, publishes this every year. Is there something similar out there for St. Louis.

My wife is okay with the city, but she really isn't interested in living in a four block area bordered by scarier areas. We want our son to be able to play on the street and grow up in a safe environment, but I just can't bring myself to live in "suburbia". I think this means we are leaning towards neighborhoods like St. Louis Hills, the Hill and North Hampton. I'm getting the sense that we likely won't find what we are looking for around the Tower Grove area even though there are some very nice neighborhoods there (Compton Heights and Lafayette Square). How is Fox Park? If I didn't have a kid, I would probably be happy to take a risk on an up and coming part of the city. But with 1 kid and another in the near future, I think we want to go with more of a sure bet. We are taking our first house hunting trip at the end of the month. We are very excited. Just so you can help, our price range is 250-375K (we might be able to go to 400K if we had to, but I don't want to push it because we'll likely have private school in the future if we move to the city). Thanks again for your help.
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Old 04-08-2008, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,063 posts, read 31,467,731 times
Reputation: 3798
You're looking for this: St Louis Police Dept SafeCity2 (http://safecity.slmpd.org/index.htm - broken link)

I think it will help you immensely.
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Old 04-08-2008, 12:05 PM
 
24 posts, read 128,537 times
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Thanks. That is exactly what I was looking for.
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Old 04-08-2008, 12:51 PM
TGS
 
360 posts, read 1,714,276 times
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Compton Heights has very little crime. Nearby Fox Park has a few blocks that look scary, I will admit, but it is pretty safe also. Fox Park is gentrifying and the criminals have been pushed out. Compton Heights has a lot of families with kids, and the area has never, ever, been bad. Ever. This isn't a neighborhood where the houses were left to rot, turned into flophouses, and the neighborhood "rediscovered" in the 1980s. The houses are family homes that have been passed down through the generations. The real trick is going to be finding a home in your price range that doesn't need a rehab.

Lafayette Square is also very safe, though it isn't considered to be part of the Tower Grove area. The poorly run housing projects that were nearby have been torn down and mixed-income apartments buildings and single family homes were built in their place. The managers of the mixed-income units seem to do a good job at screening, because there isn't a whole lot of criminal activity in that area. The houses in Lafayette Square are stunning and unique to the area, so the neighborhood is in very high demand for wealthy families. You wouldn't go wrong buying in that area. It is less of a family area than Compton Heights, though, because it was an area that was abandoned and then rediscovered. It tends to have more singles and older professionals. There is a lot of selection in your price range.

The real hotbeds of crime in South City are currently centered around the Gravois Park neighborhood. Compton Heights and Lafayette Square aren't really affected.

The Hill, St. Louis Hills, and North/Southampton are indeed very low crime neighborhoods. They also have great private schools and magnet schools right in the neighborhoods. You will be able to get a great house in those areas in your price range. There aren't any scary areas nearby. They don't really have the incredible housing stock of Compton Heights or Lafayette Square, though, with the exception of the area right around Francis Park.
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Old 04-08-2008, 02:07 PM
 
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There are some nice looking homes in various S. STL neighborhoods. But with young kids it might be hard to find a good one in a neighborhood with other young families, STL Hills has an older population. Plus a problem with homes that older people have lived in, a lot of the homes need a lot of work or updates done as far as kitchens, bath, painting, wallpaper, etc. I guess you've checked out the schools, you know you have to go private in the city of STL. I wouldn't send a dog to obedience school in St. Louis Schools. The city also has a 1% earnings tax, whether you work or live in the city. I can't think of a single thing you're getting for that 1% in services that isn't better in the county. Violent crime doesn't seem like a big problem in STL Hills area, however car theft and break-ins to vehicles are, if the cars are parked on the street or in shopping centers around the area. STL police are very good at writing parking tickets, though.

From what you are interested in, you may want to check out some of the mid-county areas such as Webster, Kirkwood, Creve Couer, Olivette. Good luck with your move.
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Old 04-08-2008, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,063 posts, read 31,467,731 times
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If you don't like the suburbs, I would definitely not suggest any of those areas. They're nice places, but suburban to the max.

Also as far as the earnings tax goes- I assume you're working in the city anyway, so you'd have to pay it anyway.
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Old 04-08-2008, 02:53 PM
 
24 posts, read 128,537 times
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I actually will be working at Wash U, so I won't be in the city. So the 1% tax would be a cost of living in the city. I had the impression that St. Louis Hills was an area with lots of families. Is this incorrect? Are there areas like this in the city? I'm not 100% set on St. Louis proper, but I definitely want somewhere a little more diverse and interesting. I drove through Olivette/Ladue and I wasn't thrilled with what I saw. (Before anyone gets to upset, I think for some people it is probably wonderful. It's just not my cup of tea) It seems that you either pay a lot for a mediocre home (or of course a ton for a really nice home, which I can't afford), or you live in what seems like a run down area. Or even worse an area where you neighbors are all tearing down 1500 sq. ft houses and putting up McMansions next to your 1500 sq. ft. house. I'm also not a huge fan of homes built in the 50-60s. I prefer stuff that's older, but been renovated. It seems at least online I've had no problems finding stuff in the city fitting this description. The other option I've considered is U. City, but the homes seem quite a bit more expensive than the city (about 75-100K) for the same thing. Then on top of the higher cost of housing I would still have to send my kid to private school. I'm sure we'll get a better sense once we take a house hunting trip, but every opinion/data point I can get before we go will hopefully allow us to make a more informed decision.
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Old 04-08-2008, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Tower Grove East, St. Louis, MO
12,063 posts, read 31,467,731 times
Reputation: 3798
You seem to have your priorities in order and have clearly done your research.

My understanding is that St. Louis Hills has many families. Every time I have been in the area I have seen many families, as well as data from their own Web site which states that 90% of the households are families, 37% of which have children under 18.

Sounds pretty family friendly to me.
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Old 04-08-2008, 04:18 PM
TGS
 
360 posts, read 1,714,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boomster View Post
There are some nice looking homes in various S. STL neighborhoods. But with young kids it might be hard to find a good one in a neighborhood with other young families, STL Hills has an older population. Plus a problem with homes that older people have lived in, a lot of the homes need a lot of work or updates done as far as kitchens, bath, painting, wallpaper, etc. I guess you've checked out the schools, you know you have to go private in the city of STL. I wouldn't send a dog to obedience school in St. Louis Schools. The city also has a 1% earnings tax, whether you work or live in the city. I can't think of a single thing you're getting for that 1% in services that isn't better in the county. Violent crime doesn't seem like a big problem in STL Hills area, however car theft and break-ins to vehicles are, if the cars are parked on the street or in shopping centers around the area. STL police are very good at writing parking tickets, though.

From what you are interested in, you may want to check out some of the mid-county areas such as Webster, Kirkwood, Creve Couer, Olivette. Good luck with your move.
I get the feeling that you don't spend much time in the city. The population of St. Louis Hills isn't any older than that of the suburbs you mentioned. There are a lot of young families in St. Louis Hills. It is considered a family-oriented neighborhood and there are three great Catholic schools (one high school and two elementary) and one great Lutheran school within the neighborhood boundaries. It takes a lot of kids to fill those schools. The neighborhoods of North/Southampton, The Hill, Tower Grove, Compton Heights, Dogtown, and the Central West End are also full of young families and kids. The only upscale area that doesn't have a lot of kids is Downtown.

I will agree that the public schools aren't great, except for some of the magnet schools, which are superb. St. Louis City has the highest-ranked public high school in the entire state, and some of the best elementary and middle schools, so the magnets are a decent option. Most of the city families will opt for private school, though. The Catholic and Lutheran schools are pretty inexpensive so even working class families can afford private school.

As for the earnings tax, it isn't a big deal. I found that it was less expensive to live in the city then it was to live in the county, once all expenses were taken into account. My house was far less expensive then what I would have had to pay for a similar house in the county, and my real estate taxes are very low. My gas bill is very, very small, since my commute is minimal. The trash pick-up is free in the city, and the water bills are about half what I was paying in the county. Whether it is more or less expensive to live in the city than the county is based on so many variables that it isn't fair to make a blanket statement.

You mention the car break-ins around the shopping areas... the malls in West County have just as much crime in their parking lots. Inside the neighborhood of St. Louis Hills crime is virtually non-existent.
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Old 04-08-2008, 09:20 PM
 
Location: St Louis
1,117 posts, read 2,912,644 times
Reputation: 374
Try looking at Soulard and Benton Park as well. Lots of great homes!!!
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