Goodbye, city and county? Potential city/county merger (St. Louis, St. Charles: employment, tax)

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by FalstaffBlues

I think that 33 number should be cut in half. You don't need 33 reps for 1.3 mil people

I think 40k per resident is a reasonable number; it's similar to the state representative ratio, and to the non-ratified Congressional Apportionment Amendment.

[MUTGR]

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...a202f36f3.html

[FalstaffBlues]

Originally Posted by MUTGR

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...a202f36f3.html

Whats your point?

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by FalstaffBlues

Whats your point?

That Stenger and Krewson promise no layoffs.

What do you think about that?

[MUTGR]

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...c762ddcea.html

...just the type of regionalism we can expect with #BetterTogetherSTL

[RisingAurvandil]

Originally Posted by MUTGR

That Stenger and Krewson promise no layoffs.

What do you think about that?

It's common for corporations to reduce their workforce without layoffs. I believe both states have done so as well.

What are we going to do about our declining relevance? This region is sinking. It's ironic that I hear folks here trash talking the rest of the country. It's almost unimaginable that we used to be right behind Chicago. They're still #3...and we've fallen to #21.

Too many people here are inward thinking, dwelling on the past instead of the future. Little support for investment or improvement. You can't blame it on taxes, weather, or geography We've been leapfrogged by regions with higher taxes, lower taxes, colder weather, and warmer weather. And by regions that have no defining natural geography. The problem here: the culture of mediocrity. And this debate has made abundantly clear that too many people here are comfortable with mediocrity and refuse to offer any solutions.

[MUTGR]

Originally Posted by RisingAurvandil

It's common for corporations to reduce their workforce without layoffs. I believe both states have done so as well.

What are we going to do about our declining relevance? This region is sinking. It's ironic that I hear folks here trash talking the rest of the country. It's almost unimaginable that we used to be right behind Chicago. They're still #3...and we've fallen to #21.

Too many people here are inward thinking, dwelling on the past instead of the future. Little support for investment or improvement. You can't blame it on taxes, weather, or geography We've been leapfrogged by regions with higher taxes, lower taxes, colder weather, and warmer weather. And by regions that have no defining natural geography. The problem here: the culture of mediocrity. And this debate has made abundantly clear that too many people here are comfortable with mediocrity and refuse to offer any solutions.

Well then they call it something else. Golden parachutes. Wait - that's for the rich. Forced retirements? I dunno.

But how are we to reap all of the benefits of this consolidated metro if none of the government employees are laid off?

The municipalities? Ok - most of them make very little money.

Getting rid of professional police forces like Chesterfield, Kirkwood, Des Peres, Webster Groves, etc. et al.? And all be with the STLPD and Country Browns combined?

Makes sense.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by MUTGR

That Stenger and Krewson promise no layoffs.

What do you think about that?

I think it can make sense for a few reasons:

This is already pretty hard to pass and having an organized and visible workforce that is likely more politically aware on average, starting with threats to their livelihood is going to be a hard sell to a good number of people.

The initial merger and restructuring is going to be difficult and you won't know what parts become redundant until when the dust settles which can take a while.

Finally, there's this from the article:
Krewson texted a similar statement: “Through natural attrition and retirements, we are confident that every City employee will be needed in the new metro city.”
So this points to a gradual reduction through natural attrition and retirements in order to reduce things down which can be a good way to go. It's essentially letting it settle to a stable state especially as natural attrition and retirements can be nudged a bit.

Besides, there are other benefits from consolidation aside from just shedding some public jobs and getting rid of redundancies (which this can still eventually do if not immediately and not via laying people off now but by not getting replacements if someone leaves a job that is not valuable enough versus its cost to the city).

There's better regional planning. There's the simplicity for people and businesses to not have to worry about different ordinances from one municipality to another. There are greater economies of scale for municipal purchases of equipment or services. There's the stupid but still attention-getting recognition that comes from being a "bigger city" despite this simply being a redrawing of borders--do this fast enough and St. Louis might suddenly find itself as the tenth most populous city in the US.

[pdm_ad]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

There's the stupid but still attention-getting recognition that comes from being a "bigger city" despite this simply being a redrawing of borders--do this fast enough and St. Louis might suddenly find itself as the tenth most populous city in the US.

I think this actually plays a bigger role than people assign to it. Perception is reality and the perception is that STL is a dangerous city based upon arbitrary lines when tabulating 'City Crime Rankings'. How many threads on this very forum do we see comments about STL being dangerous? Yet when we look at the metro as a whole we see that STL is actually less dangerous than cities that have the perception of being safe, like KC for instance.

If the city and county are combined we drop off all the Most Dangerous lists and that perception goes away. It might take a while for that to change but I am confident that it will. We have a lot of momentum happening in the city right now and this issue has, finally, been brought to the top of the list. We will never have a perfect reunion plan but if we do nothing we continue down this road of regionalism and fractured government. It's a good time for this to happen with both Stenger and Krewson on board.

[FalstaffBlues]

Originally Posted by RisingAurvandil

It's common for corporations to reduce their workforce without layoffs. I believe both states have done so as well.

What are we going to do about our declining relevance? This region is sinking. It's ironic that I hear folks here trash talking the rest of the country. It's almost unimaginable that we used to be right behind Chicago. They're still #3...and we've fallen to #21.

Too many people here are inward thinking, dwelling on the past instead of the future. Little support for investment or improvement. You can't blame it on taxes, weather, or geography We've been leapfrogged by regions with higher taxes, lower taxes, colder weather, and warmer weather. And by regions that have no defining natural geography. The problem here: the culture of mediocrity. And this debate has made abundantly clear that too many people here are comfortable with mediocrity and refuse to offer any solutions.

Well said. St. Louis is full of placid people content with mediocrity. Moderator cut: see note