I couldn't have been more scared or dissapointed. (St. Louis: live in, nicest)

[CarNutCass]

Originally Posted by skipcromer

Hard to blame the city for the run down 'historic' buildings on the north side. White flight hit that area hard. Not much that could have really been done.

Huh?

How is it that the people who left are responsible for the deterioration of the city's buildings, rather than the people who live there currently? Is ther not building codes, municiple inspections, and other mechanisms in place in most cities to ensure the current resident maintains the property?

[Silvermouse]

Originally Posted by CarNutCass

Huh?

How is it that the people who left are responsible for the deterioration of the city's buildings, rather than the people who live there currently? Is ther not building codes, municiple inspections, and other mechanisms in place in most cities to ensure the current resident maintains the property?

Very good point!

[MOviaCA]

Originally Posted by skipcromer

or Cleveland

Oh ya parts of Cleveland I would never drive through let alone ride a bike... Sacramento too. In fact any major city.

[skipcromer]

Originally Posted by CarNutCass

Huh?

How is it that the people who left are responsible for the deterioration of the city's buildings, rather than the people who live there currently? Is ther not building codes, municiple inspections, and other mechanisms in place in most cities to ensure the current resident maintains the property?

I never said it was the fault of the people leaving. But the city only has so many resources. Look at Detroit for example. Are you really going to blame the city for how bad it has gotten up there. The city doesnt have control over all of their jobs being outsourced to countries that are offering cheaper wages.

All i'm saying is you can't blame the city for the damage caused by white flight.

[CarNutCass]

Originally Posted by skipcromer

I never said it was the fault of the people leaving. But the city only has so many resources. Look at Detroit for example. Are you really going to blame the city for how bad it has gotten up there. The city doesnt have control over all of their jobs being outsourced to countries that are offering cheaper wages.

All i'm saying is you can't blame the city for the damage caused by white flight.

I was being facetious.

The comparison between St. Louis and Detroit doesn't really work. Detriot had several huge manufacturing plants close down completely leaving a huge revenue hole. I don't think the St. louis region has seen the same level of job loss since McDonnell Douglas hit hard times in the early 90's.

[mrschilicook]

Ok...I just came back from a weekend in St. Louis and had a wonderful time (even if the Cardinals did lose and the weather on Sat. was cold) and consider St. Louis to be a lovely old city.

We lived in Eureka in the early 80's (coming from SF Bay Area) and the first time we went to St. Louis is was down Kings Hiway south from the airport. Most of my thoughts were similiar to the original posting starting this thread.

Then as I got to know the city, I found lovely old areas of the city along with areas in the midst of rehab. Lovely architecture abounded but there were areas within the city that I avoided.

This trip we visited Soulard Market...yes, it is a bit shabby, but a wonderful market. And the surrounding architecture is gorgeous. We did Lafayette Square and The Hill (love Volpi's for deli meats). We had dinner at Westport Plaza which was still delightful although it has become restaurant row. The garment district has been cleaned up ALOT from when I was there last (stores had bars and electronic locks that allowed you to enter when someone unlocked from the inside).

Yes, the western and southern areas are "nicer" if your definition of nice is newer. But those areas are just like any other "burb"...full of retail, autodealers, services, and homes....and traffic. Couldn't believe all the building around The SmokeHouse out in Chesterfield.

So like any big old city, (SF, Oakland, LA, Sac. in California) there are good areas and there are bad. But we last lived in Las Vegas which is, by no means an "old city" and there are bad areas there too....plus the city (other than the strip) has no character...just the same old boxy houses and retail centers you find everywhere else.

St. Louis has charm, character, and some great old neighborhoods along with some crummy ones. Lovely museums, old theaters, restaurants in historical buildings, etc. I just wish we were about 2 hours closer.....I would be there more often. But you have to learn, in any city, where to go and where not to go. I'm sorry to hear it when someone has such a negative experience when they visit a city once.

[stlouis_270]

why don't you people quit being wimps and take the time 2 even drive through 1 of then so called bad ghettos and u will see that they are like ghost towns it just looks bad from the outside because of the old houses and buildings
yes there are shootings and crime just like in every city

and for the people that think cities like Chicago are better then st Louis
nothing like this has ever happened in st Louis

VVVVVV
32 people shot, 6 killed, in violent Chicago weekend - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/21/chicago.shootings.ap/index.html - broken link)

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by northoceanbeach

Ok, I've got to post this, just so I know what is going on with this city. I recently drove across the country, I checked out alot of cities along the way, and I've spent time in lots of different places.

But St. Louis was hands down the worst and most dissapointing city. I parked downtown and got out my bike to explore. Here's my route:

MapMyRide.com | View St. Louis in St. Louis, Missouri

I've never seen a city like this. From the highway it looked beuatiful, old, a little rundown, but everything was red brick, cool old industrial buildings, church spires dotting the skyline into the distance. What it looked like from the ground was more like a warzone. Seriously, I have no reason to want this city to be bad, I had always thought it was a neat historical river town, but it looked like some post-apocolyptic wasteland. I don't know how it got so bad. Alot of the architecture was fantastic, and you could tell that it really used to be something.

For instance. I drove west on I-70 and alot of the houses looked like 100 years old, nice decorations on them, the kind you would see preserved in another city, but these were boarded up, burned out, falling apart. Glad I didn't bike through this area.

So after I left downtown, there was a tiny historic, bar/club area on the river and then along the river itself, which was pretty dumpy, and the after I got south of the arch, pretty deserted and scary. The funny thing was I was following signs that said i was on a bike route. Never knew of a city that puts bike routes through ghettos. So this wound me through to Lafayette square. On the way I saw some new houses, these looked nice, but they turned out to be projects, I saw one 12ish year old kid run drugs out to some people driving by in a car. I got to lafayette square, and this was nice, what struck me was that it was surrounded on all sides by ghetto. It was I would guess 1 mile, by 1 mile square, and if you left it, it wasn't to another nice area, or even a normal area. But ghetto.

I was in the park and there was a cop car parked there. So I went up to him and asked what the deal with this town was:

Me: ...where are the nice areas here?

Him: you're in it.
--"points east" that's ghetto
--"points west" that's ghetto
--"points north" ghetto
--"points south" ghetto"
I live out in the west suburbs and it's nice out there. If you ride your bike through quick, you should be ok. Don't go north of MLK there's a murder there everynight, and watch out for the black youths, they;re the ones with something to prove. If you see a group of them split up ahead of you, you're in big trouble. That means they're going to surround you. Don't tryu to fight them they may kill you, but they'll probably just rob you. Most of the older ones have been to jail many times and they're less likely to take risks and try and prove themselves, they're more just sitting around smoking crack.

I thanked him for the advice and left.

I've lived in Chicago, and while not the best place, the good and bad areas are separate. If you are somewhere in the north, say fullerton, you walk south you're in old town, pretty nice, north wrigleyville, east lakefront, etc. They're all pretty good. And most cities are like that, if you're in the good part, you're probably not going to be in the bad part in a couple blocks, but StL was little enclaves surronded by crap. It's crazy. How did we ever let an American city become such a cesspool. Don't people have any pride in their communities? I wouldn't dream of living there or raising children somewhere like that, that they could leave their little neighborhood and be in drug country in a matter of blocks.

I can't see how this city could function even at the slim pace it is. It looks like half the people are dirt poor, and living off government assistence, and project housing, but who's paying for all that? I wouldn't be happy if it was me.

2 posts. That about covers it.

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by meskito

There are many old cities that have "character" and aren't scary and run-down. I love historic architecture and think that it should be maintained to preserve it's beauty. I totally agree that cities should maintain these structures and preserve them - and some cities do, and it makes a BIG difference in the community.

I spent some time in St. Louis and never felt safe. I saw some areas that were nice, but they were few compared to the sketchy ones. I have friends who live in the city and they really love it - they wouldn't change a thing. One friend lived in a cute apartment downtown and that seemed nice, but nearby another friend lived in a terrible run down apartment where drugs were rampant. My local friends had to instruct me on where to park - who to talk to - etc. so that I wouldn't get robbed. On top of that, the weather was always gray and it just seems like a depressing city.

As a visitor who has been there on several occasions I can agree with northoceanbeach's observations. If you are a resident, and you love your city then that's all that matters, it shouldn't matter what an outsider thinks. But I have to agree that it's a shame to let such a historic, beautiful city become a ghetto! St. Louis has a wonderful rich history and they should preserve that.
Character does not equal run down!

Enjoy Staunton Virginia.

[skipcromer]

Originally Posted by stlouis_270

why don't you people quit being wimps and take the time 2 even drive through 1 of then so called bad ghettos and u will see that they are like ghost towns it just looks bad from the outside because of the old houses and buildings
yes there are shootings and crime just like in every city

and for the people that think cities like Chicago are better then st Louis
nothing like this has ever happened in st Louis

VVVVVV
32 people shot, 6 killed, in violent Chicago weekend - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/21/chicago.shootings.ap/index.html - broken link)

Im not saying Chicago is any better than St. Louis, but bad stuff like that does happen in St. Louis...just as it does in every big city. St. Louis has a higher murder rate than chicago per capita.