Madison or STL-need advice! (St. Louis: public schools, living, bus)

[SCB123]

Originally Posted by aaronstlcards

WHAT!!! "St. Louis is a conservative area overall." I guess that's why over 100,000 St. Louisans went to see Barack Obama give a speech under the Arch. And I guess thats why Barack Obama easily (and many previous Democrats) won St. Louis by a landslide. Hmmm, you might want to rethink that.

My neighborhood (street) is mostly "conservative"; could that be an explanation of something??

Not to offend any one, but.........

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Central Illinois 1

I have lived in both areas and here are a few comparisons (at least from my perspective):

Crime - North STL City and East St. Louis have lots of violent crime. You will wnat to stay away from those areas. The remainder of STL and STL County are more comparable to Madison when it comes to crime (i.e., pretty safe overall and definitely very safe in the smaller West County suburbs of STL).

Health Care - Very comparable. Both areas are major health care centers for their regions.

Living Costs - Very comparable for what you get.

Shopping - STL wins out by a mile in this category.

Job Opportunities - Not sure. This seems to change all the time...Are they good anywhere right now?

Traffic- Generally alot worse in STL as it is a much larger area. However, STL is a breeze compared to places like Chicago or LA.

Weather - STL has MUCH MUCH better weather six or seven months out of the year. It is amazing how much warmer STL is in the winter and how much earlier spring comes (70s in STL and still 30s in Madison is not an uncommon occurrance Feb. - April).

Progressive attitudes - Madison wins out hands down - no question about it!! STL is a conservative area overall and, in many ways, seems to have a very conservative southern flavor when it comes to social issues and politics. There is also a fairly well-defined class system in STL. In STL, it DOES matter which prep school you attended (even if it was 30 years ago) and what part of the county you live in. I did not detect this type of attitude so much in Madison.

Overall: Given a choice, I would go to Madison, though STL does have some advantages.

St. Louis a conservative, southern flavor? That is a load of crap if I've ever heard it. There is nothing southern about st. louis at all when it comes to social issues and politics. St. Louis City and St. Louis County have been voting blue for a very long time. And St. Louis...70 in February? That's a VERY rare occurence. St. Louis average high in February is 44, average low 26, so while not as cold as Madison, winters are normally cold. I don't know where you are getting the idea of St. Louis being conservative or our Februaries being warm like you claim they are. It can get warm like that, but only for a brief period before snapping back to cold. This occurence is relatively common south of the Great Lakes. St. Louis is identical to Central Illinois pretty much in terms of both politics, culture, and weather. How you perceive such a stark difference is beyond me.

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by ajf131

St. Louis a conservative, southern flavor? That is a load of crap if I've ever heard it. There is nothing southern about st. louis at all when it comes to social issues and politics. St. Louis City and St. Louis County have been voting blue for a very long time. And St. Louis...70 in February? That's a VERY rare occurence. St. Louis average high in February is 44, average low 26, so while not as cold as Madison, winters are normally cold. I don't know where you are getting the idea of St. Louis being conservative or our Februaries being warm like you claim they are. It can get warm like that, but only for a brief period before snapping back to cold. This occurence is relatively common south of the Great Lakes. St. Louis is identical to Central Illinois pretty much in terms of both politics, culture, and weather. How you perceive such a stark difference is beyond me.

70's in February is a stretch. However, take this past Friday when the temps were about 25-30 degrees different between the two places. Now WI has warmed up to 50's, about a 10 degree or so difference today.

There are times on occasion where there are 20 degree plus differences in temps between the two places, and that's year round too. However, there are other times where weather is very similar too.

60's in Feb exists in Stl and has existed the past two days.

As I have mentioned, while St. Louis is a very Midwestern city with Northern and Eastern influences, there are areas not all that far from St. Louis that relate more to Southern influences, but this isn't St. Louis itself. Overall politically St. Louis is a very moderate place, with its share of liberals, moderates, and conservatives. St. Louis is definitely not progressive in big numbers. St. Louis also has a large percentage of Catholics compared to some other areas. Rural Missouri, and/or other parts of Missouri have become increasingly evangelical and conservative as many new evangelical churches have sprouted up in other parts of the state.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Fishtacos

70's in February is a stretch. However, take this past Friday when the temps were about 25-30 degrees different between the two places. Now WI has warmed up to 50's, about a 10 degree or so difference today.

There are times on occasion where there are 20 degree plus differences in temps between the two places, and that's year round too. However, there are other times where weather is very similar too.

60's in Feb exists in Stl and has existed the past two days.

As I have mentioned, while St. Louis is a very Midwestern city with Northern and Eastern influences, there are areas not all that far from St. Louis that relate more to Southern influences, but this isn't St. Louis itself. Overall politically St. Louis is a very moderate place, with its share of liberals, moderates, and conservatives. St. Louis is definitely not progressive in big numbers. St. Louis also has a large percentage of Catholics compared to some other areas. Rural Missouri, and/or other parts of Missouri have become increasingly evangelical and conservative as many new evangelical churches have sprouted up in other parts of the state.

I would agree with areas of Missouri that relate more to Southern influences if you are talking 100 miles to the south or 100 miles to the southwest. Other than that, the transition does not happen only 20 miles from exiting the boundaries of the metro area. From my point of view the northern half of Southern Missouri leans more Midwestern, and the southern half of Southern Missouri leans more Southern. Southeast Missouri below Cape Girardeau is definitively Southern.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by Fishtacos

70's in February is a stretch. However, take this past Friday when the temps were about 25-30 degrees different between the two places. Now WI has warmed up to 50's, about a 10 degree or so difference today.

There are times on occasion where there are 20 degree plus differences in temps between the two places, and that's year round too. However, there are other times where weather is very similar too.

60's in Feb exists in Stl and has existed the past two days.

As I have mentioned, while St. Louis is a very Midwestern city with Northern and Eastern influences, there are areas not all that far from St. Louis that relate more to Southern influences, but this isn't St. Louis itself. Overall politically St. Louis is a very moderate place, with its share of liberals, moderates, and conservatives. St. Louis is definitely not progressive in big numbers. St. Louis also has a large percentage of Catholics compared to some other areas. Rural Missouri, and/or other parts of Missouri have become increasingly evangelical and conservative as many new evangelical churches have sprouted up in other parts of the state.

Maybe not progressive in big numbers, but progressive nonetheless. It is more liberal than it is conservative, anyway you stack it.

[Central Illinois 1]

Originally Posted by Melindalou7

Central Illinois 1, why would you pick Madison over STL?

I like the size of Madison and the atmosphere around the university (e.g., State Street and Capital Square). It also seems like, overall, Madison is more progressive and less class-conscious. However, I do like the STL weather alsot more. Madison weather can be very dismal and cold.

[Central Illinois 1]

Originally Posted by ajf131

St. Louis a conservative, southern flavor? That is a load of crap if I've ever heard it. There is nothing southern about st. louis at all when it comes to social issues and politics. St. Louis City and St. Louis County have been voting blue for a very long time. And St. Louis...70 in February? That's a VERY rare occurence. St. Louis average high in February is 44, average low 26, so while not as cold as Madison, winters are normally cold. I don't know where you are getting the idea of St. Louis being conservative or our Februaries being warm like you claim they are. It can get warm like that, but only for a brief period before snapping back to cold. This occurence is relatively common south of the Great Lakes. St. Louis is identical to Central Illinois pretty much in terms of both politics, culture, and weather. How you perceive such a stark difference is beyond me.

Relative to Madison, and having lived in both STL and Madison, I still contend that STL has a more conservative flavor overall and has much warmer weather most of the time (the latter can be proved by looking at historical weather statistics). Democratic voting behavior does not necessarily imply that an area is "progressive".

[linicx]

Another option is to live in Illinois.. There are som nice areas across the river with young professionals like yourself.. You work in the big city but otherwise live in a smaller town. I think its the best of both worlds. Barnes Jewish is the only midwest hospital to make it to the top 25 hospitals in the US. I think its the best reason in the world to choose the St.Louis office.

Better yet. why not come down for a weekend and check out the area for yourself?

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Maybe not progressive in big numbers, but progressive nonetheless. It is more liberal than it is conservative, anyway you stack it.

Progressive and liberal are not interchangeable words.

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by Central Illinois 1

Relative to Madison, and having lived in both STL and Madison, I still contend that STL has a more conservative flavor overall and has much warmer weather most of the time (the latter can be proved by looking at historical weather statistics). Democratic voting behavior does not necessarily imply that an area is "progressive".

St. Louis overall is a very moderate metro community. You will find people who find it too this or too that. It is definitely not a progressive place to live in general, or in comparison to the rest of the U.S. Will it be more so than some place and less so than another, yes. Overall is it progressive, no. And, that's good, bad, or indifferent depending on your point of view.