New study suggests STL is economically overextended for pro sports (Kansas City: living, costs)

[skipcromer]

Originally Posted by Marksman84

Is that you, Richie Incognito? Way to deflect the Rams' pathetic season by reiterating trite doggerel.

Through 14 games - Opponents 361, Rams 146

Anyway, the Cards and Blues kick @ss! The Shams suck!!! Get over it, you have season tix to a joke. Don't worry, they should improve to 8-8 by 2011.

Ya, the blues are having a tremendous season thus far...

[Marksman84]

Originally Posted by skipcromer

Ya, the blues are having a tremendous season thus far...

STL Blues at 12/18/2008: 12-16-3 (made the playoffs with a hell of a run in the second half)

STL Blues at 12/18/2009: 13-12-5

This is still a young and exciting team and will bring it in the second half. I'm not sure if you played hockey, but it really is the "on any given night" sport.

[skipcromer]

Originally Posted by Marksman84

STL Blues at 12/18/2008: 12-16-3 (made the playoffs with a hell of a run in the second half)

STL Blues at 12/18/2009: 13-12-5

This is still a young and exciting team and will bring it in the second half. I'm not sure if you played hockey, but it really is the "on any given night" sport.

Yes, I actually did play hockey.

Well, your any given night deal works the first few games. That stops being an acceptable excuse after theyve played 1/4 of the season. And you are off on their record. They are 14-14-5 per ESPN. So basically they have won 14 games and lost 19.

If you are going to pile on one team for being crap expect the same of your sub .500 team.

[cyrano]

It goes to show that you can get an economic study to "prove" anything. A city's "capacity" to support pro sports franchises has to be but one of a number of factors in determining the success of a franchise in that location. The Rams and the Raiders left LA because people weren't coming to the games, and Oakland and StL wanted those teams. I think it was Colin Cowherd on ESPN radio today who talked about the NFL protecting their brand by blacking games out when they didn't sell out. In a place where the team is pretty popular and is just going through a down patch, then there's probably a prod to buy tickets, but I've also seen it start a slippery slope slide into fan apathy that leads to the team leaving. I was in Houston when Bud Adams threatened to pull the Oilers out if the city didn't build him a new stadium. The mayor called his bluff and Adams had to find a new place for "his" team. You want to talk about a miserable last couple of years, it was those years when everyone knew the Oilers were leaving.

St. Louis is a good sports town in the way that Cleveland and Philadelphia are, and how Cincinnati is for baseball. I believe that towns that have stable populations who have multi-generational allegiances to the teams are going to outdraw "richer" towns. In Houston, Phoenix, and even in Denver, pro sports provide entertainment. In St. Louis, the Cards are a secular religion.

I didn't grow up with hockey so its attraction is totally lost on me. I tried. They seemed to draw pretty well in the past few years, when the team was rotten (or seemed that way to me). I wonder about the Rams, though-- are the surviving owners looking for the exit? And as for new sports, like an NBA or pro soccer franchise, i don't think either would do well in StL, but not because the town is "overextended;" there's just very little demand for either.

[Marksman84]

Originally Posted by cyrano

It goes to show that you can get an economic study to "prove" anything. A city's "capacity" to support pro sports franchises has to be but one of a number of factors in determining the success of a franchise in that location. The Rams and the Raiders left LA because people weren't coming to the games, and Oakland and StL wanted those teams.

.

The Raiders moved back to Oakland because Al Davis is the most despicable, low-life piece of scum in professional sports. He's the perfect leader for a dysfunctional organization such as the Raiders. Even his own fans hate him.

Rosenbloom, Rodriguez et al have no passion/acumen for football and should really sell the team to someone who try to make the Rams a decent team again and keep them from leaving St. Louis.

The St. Louis Blues are the most fan and family-freindly organization in the NHL and in St. Louis. The tickets are very fairly priced, the ownership and management are rock-solid, and this young and exciting team just needs to get a little more synergy and footing and it will become a force to be reckoned with.

[cyrano]

You really think that the ownerships of those teams would have left if staying in LA was their best economic option? This article from the time of the departure of the teams (note the date-- 1993) suggests otherwise.

[Marksman84]

Originally Posted by cyrano

You really think that the ownerships of those teams would have left if staying in LA was their best economic option? This article from the time of the departure of the teams (note the date-- 1993) suggests otherwise.

I'm well aware of the actual financial reasons why the Rams moved to STL and the Faders went back to Crackland in the same year. Attendance was grim in L.A. Coliseum for both teams. If Amerca's second-biggest market can't support an NFL team, then obviously there is an issue with the fan fervor. Most people now in the Republic of California can barely afford their mortgage/rent/food in overpriced/overextended LA and consequently are highly unlikely to support and NFL team.
However, let's fast forward to 2009 - Al Davis is a tired, senile, lawsuit-happy moron that could best serve his organization and fans by getting out of the operation. At the same token, while Georgia Frontiere maintained some pride and diligence in the Rams and helped get them a phenomenal Super Bowl year in STL, Chip Roesenbloom and Lucia Rodriguez need to either get involved or sell the team to someone who gives a damn. Kroenke is focused on his stakes in successful Colorado teams and the legendary Arsenal soccer team.

Bottom line: Instead of refusing potential investors, the Rams need new ownership that will spend some coin and keep them in STL. Although I personally don't give a hoot about them, it would sadden me to see STL lose two NFL franchises.

[DinsdalePirahna]

LA does not need a pro-sport team to validate itself as a major city. But that doesn't mean they wont support one if the team puts out a consistently good product. Football tickets are expensive. California state is having a economic crisis. but there is still plenty of cash in the hands of people that can afford NFL tickets.

The Raiders tanked because they were branded as a Gangsta team. People with money were affraid to go to Raiders games. The LA Riots pretty much secured the move back to LA.

On the other Georgia Frontiere intentionally tanked the LA Rams. The Local population (Orange County) was not going to support a team that was essentially being hung out to dry. Alienating the fan base was her out. With no investment in team building and looking for a way for her to return to her Native St. Louis. She then suckered the fine citizens of St. Louis to build her a stadium because LA/OC would not build a tax-payers funded stadium for the NFL millionaires club.

By the time Frontiere left with the Rams she was personna non-grata in LA.

A good indicator of how she was perceived is to review the media in LA and Saint Louis when the team decided to move: In LA she was branded was a ex-stripper and even a prostitute by some of the local media, In Saint Louis she was called a "former show-girl"

I'm betting they it will be Jacksonville or the Rams that will move to LA.

[Fishtacos]

Originally Posted by Marksman84

Is that you, Richie Incognito? Way to deflect the Rams' pathetic season by reiterating trite doggerel.

Through 14 games - Opponents 361, Rams 146

Anyway, the Cards and Blues kick @ss! The Shams suck!!! Get over it, you have season tix to a joke. Don't worry, they should improve to 8-8 by 2011.

I'm not sure why you are allowed to continue to troll in this forum. You consistently post off-topic. This thread is about economic viability and support for the teams.

And as usual the accuracy of your facts are wrong.

The Kansas City Chiefs blacked out their game today due to not enough ticket sales. Previously this season the Chiefs were given extensions to try to sell enough tickets to prevent blackouts.

[Marksman84]

Originally Posted by Fishtacos

I'm not sure why you are allowed to continue to troll in this forum. You consistently post off-topic. This thread is about economic viability and support for the teams.

And as usual the accuracy of your facts are wrong.

The Kansas City Chiefs blacked out their game today due to not enough ticket sales. Previously this season the Chiefs were given extensions to try to sell enough tickets to prevent blackouts.

And as usual, in grand STL fashion, you don't pay attention to detail and didn't read my second post on how the Rams can (a) stay in STL and (b) improve themselves to a competitive franchise again. Instead you deflect the issue to another target, in this case Kansas City who still has a vastly superior football fan base to St. Louis.

I'm well aware of the original topic - St. Louis' economic viability for supporing Major League Sports, and I already provided my analysis - Cards and Blues, no question; Rams, let's see in a year or two, and the current ownership is clueless....