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The glucosamine/chondroitin combo has been around longer than MSM. MSM started being added to the other supplements more recently. Some studies have shown that MSM can enhance the effect of glucosamine/chondroitin, but not all supplement brands chose to add it in. That might not be because of any difference in potential effects, just sticking to what customers were familiar with and used to shopping for.
As we should all know, studies and how they're designed vary quite a bit. Depending on the initial hypothesis, the experiments are biased. While its not an quick read, here's an article and links to others discussing all three compounds:
Now for the inevitable anecdote: I've taken several different brands of glucosamine/chondroitin supplements over many years trying to fend off advancing osteoarthritis. More recent formulations of those brands added MSM claiming it can enhance the cumulative effect. I've also seen some formulations that don't include the chondroitin, just the newer MSM. I choose to take all three as my arthritis is pretty advanced. Not sure how much benefit there's actually been, but I can't go back and re-live all those years without them. I'll never actually know for sure. Upshot is, there's probably no harm using either formulation, but you could always compare the results for yourself. Not sure how long that might take.
Last edited by Parnassia; 10-18-2021 at 04:07 PM..
Because these chemicals are already available as generics, there's not really a lot of research being done on them....Most of the studies are like the one cited above- based on the subjective end point of "pain reduction." Some studies say they work. Some don't.
OTOH- the veterinary literature has several studies where they actually did joint biopsies on horses with arthritis, before and after treatment, and found that these chemicals, which are naturally occurring components of the joint surfaces, do deposit themselves there and smooth out the arthritic, rough surfaces. (!!!)
One would think that the stuff would have a hard time getting past the stomach acid and hepatic metabolism, find its way into the circulation, and then get placed where it's needed....But I guess it does....Now the question from the healthily skeptical should be "Where else is it getting deposited? Brain, kidneys, arteries???"
I know of no longer term studies on the question, but then, I know of no reson to think there's any adverse effects, given the large number of people who do use the stuff regualrly over the last few decades.
Keep in mind it's not a "pain pill" but a tratment to fix the problem causing the pain.
edited to add-- I suppose it's like using make-up to smooth out wrinkles-- pretty easy to do when you're 33. By the time you're 80, you may need to hire a union cement finisher.
Last edited by guidoLaMoto; 10-19-2021 at 02:05 AM..
I know when I'm out of glucosamine/condrotin and think I'll stay off, my body hurts more. So I get back on. And I buy a product with MSM in it, and my bottle calls for 4 a day and I'm ok taking 3 a day. I deal with advanced osteoarthritis. Never totally out of pain, that ain't gonna happen, body is too damaged.
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
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"chondroitin" mostly from shrimp, crab, lobster shells. You can tell by the fishy taste. I imagine bug shells can be a good substitute if we run out of shrimp shells.
I started experimenting with glucosamine/chondroitin in the hopes that I might end up a little more spry, fewer aches in my legs.
Then I stocked up, didn't look carefully, and I ended up with bottles of glucosamine and MSM, with no mention of chondroitin.
So ... what part of the benefits are chondroitin? Should I try to return the wrong bottles? What is MSM?
I got my first knee pain when I was 50. I'm 66 now. I've tried many different brands and combinations of glucosamine/chondroitin and many other supplements that are supposed to help with osteoarthritis. Some people swear by glucosamine. There has been some studies on it with mixed results. The other osteoarthritis supplements do not have many peer reviewed studies. I think these supplements may help with mild osteoarthritis only. Many people have other knee conditions such as a torn meniscus.
It is best to find out exactly what is causing your pain. A sports medicine or physical medicine doctor is best for this diagnosis. Glucosamine won't help with conditions other than arthritis. Are your sure you issue is not muscular? A foam roller can work wonders for those isses.
I have been subject to osteoarthritis. Both knees have been audibly crunchy since I was
in my 20s or 30s. They were finally replaced when I was 72.
Subsequently I developed an incapacitating osteoarthritis of the right ankle that had me on crutches and heading for a wheelchair. An osteophyte (an inch high) developed on the inside of the ankle over some months.
With such a mass of evidence, there is no question in my mind that osteoarthritis is associated with poor circulation to affected joints. There is also no doubt that random control trials have shown some significant temporary improvement with all three supplements -- glucoseamine, chondroitin, MSM, as well as a number of other supplements.
My hypothesis was that cartilage over the ends of bones naturally suffers wear and tear. That’s natural; cartilage is designed to protect the bone ends. If the circulation to the joints is adequate, it supplies nutrients to repair worn cartilage. If the circulation is poor, then not enough nutrients reach the damaged cartilage and there is some contact of bone on bone -- hence inflammation of the joint (osteoarthritis). Increasing the concentration of essential nutrients by taking supplements, obviously overcomes the blood supply deficit to some extent, but only temporarily.
Atherosclerosis is the main cause of poor artery supply in our bodies. It becomes cumulative with age.
Vitamin K reverses atherosclerosis in arteries that are 50 to 60% occluded. I’ve been taking 10 times the recommended daily dose of vitamin K1 and K2 now for 7+ years. My right ankle became functional within weeks, even though it is structurally disgraceful. I haven’t used crutches since. I have one thing in common with a famous person -- I now walk like Charlie Chapman.
You can look up Google Scholar under the keys words VITAMIN K AND OSTEOARTHRITIS for 2021, and you will find more supporting evidence.
It’s vitamin K that you need, rather than other supplements (including chondroitin).
These are ultrasound tracings of my aorta and a pelvic artery, before, and 14 months after vitamin K supplementation. You need an adequate vitamin D status for vitamin K to work. Vitamin D produces the raw proteins that have to be co-activated by the vitamin Ks. The first tracings show approximately 50% stenosis, but the second ones 14 months later show normal tracings.
As far as I understand the simple question, glucoseamine should be regarded in the same manner as the the steel girders in the construction of a building. It is the framework on which the other materials are added in the construction of cartilage. These other materials include chondroitin, dimethyl suplhone (MSM), hyaluronidase, boron, manganese, calcium, phosphorus and other materials that constitute the cartilage that covers the end of the bones in joints. Technically, you need everything that is required to make new cartilage.
Yes, you should take supplements with chondroitin and MSM as well as glucoseamine, but any beneficial results will only be temporary, as the arteries supplying nutrients to your joints gradually become more clogged with atherosclerosis. Only high dose vitamin Ks will keep your arteries open and allow enough repair nutrients to restore your naturally-wearing cartilage.
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