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There is a very interesting church that is still standing in the old 15th ward near the new Center of Excellence. Unfortunately, it appears vacant. If the construction of the Biotech Center and demolition of Kennedy Square moved forward, perhaps the church and other historic, but dilapidated properties could become viable for redevelopment. There are some very interesting old buildings in the immediate area. I'd personally like to see the Uhaul building redeveloped into loft apartments or condos. I can imagine there are some pretty nice views of the University Hill and downtown skylines from the upper floors of that building.
The NYS Board for Historic Preservation just recommended the church, and two other city buildings to the State and National Registers of Historic Places. Being added to list opens up additional streams of funding including historic property tax credits and state grants.
1) The church at 711 East Fayette Street was still in use as a church up until arouund 2005 or 2006. It was no longer an AME Zion church - the last congregation who was worshiping there was small and lacked the capital resources to heat, maintain, do repairs etc. They moved to a small storefront on the North Side and it's been vacant ever since.
2) The 15th ward never had brownstones like those which you see in the better parts of Harlem. IF it had such buildings and IF the recent impetus seen among young professionals to live in more urban areas had occurred much sooner - perhaps things would be different now.
The Urban Renewal program was a disaster - poorly thought out and not well executed. That being said... I think that the migration pattern of our local Jewish and African-American communities (who were the most heavily represented groups in that neighborhood) would still have occurred even if the buildings had not been razed. The availability of nearby neighborhoods (near to the urban core) with affordable housing in "nicer" areas with yards and single family homes instead of apartments was typical of Syracuse but less so of the New York City area even back in the 1960's. "Strivers" from the 125th Ward didn't move to a brownstone in their neighborhood - they moved up to the near East side, then out through Salt Springs, then to Dewitt and the most successful eventually to Fayetteville. This pattern of movement was echoed in our local African-American community (and is still in progress) after it had already occurred in the Jewish community.
If only someone had the vision back then to build decentralized lower density residential housing that could be integrated into an existing neighborhood such as we're now seeing on the East Side (thank you Housing Visions!) instead of giving us unqualified disasters like Mulberry Square, Cherry Hill and Kennedy Square - things could be different. I'm not naive enough to think that's the only part of the puzzle contributing to the plight of our poorest residents in Syracuse. The disintegration of traditional family structure, increase in violent crime etc. that is endemic in some poor neighborhoods in Syracuse is also a result of a wealth of other factors. Plenty of cities that did NOT have an Urban Renewal program like ours share the same inner-city issues that we face today. Despite that I think there is hope and was thrilled to see the news about The Real Food Co-op looking at a site on South Salina Street. Small steps like that can be crucial in starting the process towards positive change.
3) @Sean - it's unfair to compare any part of Syracuse to the Bronx except perhaps a few blocks in a few neighborhoods and even then - there are huge differences. If you're not comfortable walking around in most parts of Syracuse after 12 o'clock noon and not anywhere in hte Bronx or Queens - then I suggest that your ideal location for living will be a small conservative town that is affluent enough to have no "bad" neighborhoods.
Yes- I have spent time in Harlem, Spanish Harlem, Washington Heights, Queens and parts of the Bronx (have never visited the South Bronx and can't offer perspective but it does have serious known issues.) I've also lived on the South Side in Syracuse (two years off South Ave near Kennedy in early 1980's, one year on Cannon Street near Ostrander around 1990 and two year in the late 1990's just off South Salina north of Ballantyne Road.) I'm among the first to admit that these areas have issue but to this very day I still have friends and family living in some of those neighborhoods - who I visit on occasion. I've never been hassled or had a bit of trouble (yes I am White and middle class also.)
Great points phaelon56. It is interesting to see the Black middle class, in terms of higher concentrations, following Jews. This is common in many Northeastern and Midwestern metros, if not across the country. What got a good amount of Black people to the Northern suburbs was the presence of Hancock Air Force Base, especially from the late 60's until 1983, when it closed and up to this present day.
As for the 15th Ward, you probably would have something like you see with the Housing Visions site, in that area and might see that on the old Kennedy Square site, but with mixed income units.
I was born in 1956 and grew up in the Westcott neighborhood. I'm old enough to remember (just barely) when the 15th Ward was razed to make way for Rte 81 and other projects but not old enough to remember more than that. I do have the impression that much of the property in that area - both residential and commercial - was of average to poor wood frame construction that had in many cases been poorly maintained for many years. There is a handful of older structures still extant down on and around Burt Street and near Dr. MLK School that date back to that era and were part of the edges of the 15th Ward. Among those there appear to be very few that would have significant appeal even if they were completely rehabbed and spruced up.
I'm totally unfamiliar with the Northern suburbs and can't speak to the composition of the population.
Phaelon, I'd never heard of this Mulberry Square before. The little internet research I've done (there's very little out there; this region hasn't documented a lot of its history in a way that is conducive to internet searches) is very interesting. I'd long wondered why swaths of passive green space bisected by culs-de-sac and cheap 1980s-era suburban-style houses right there along East Adams and State on the edge of downtown. I guess they replaced projects about 20 years ago. I wonder if those blocks were a bit rougher than they are now.
As much as I'd like it to be otherwise, I can't imagine that the 15th Ward would have gone the way of Harlem. The building stock was too poor (standard frame houses don't carry the same appeal as brownstones) and middle class flight has just had a much more permanent hold on this region than it has on larger cities - there's a large majority of people for whom the suburbs represent a status symbol and wouldn't stoop to living in Midtown, urban renewal or not.
It's too bad, because this is a pretty great neighborhood. With the day off today, I'm sitting right here on my couch in the 15th Ward hearing a ton of activity out my window. Within three blocks of here, there's mass earthwork or demolition taking place for the Ronald McDonald house, the CNY Biotech Center, the University Avenue portion of the Connective Corridor, and the SUNY Upstate IHP. This week's Post-Standard restaurant review featured the terrific Korean restaurant two blocks from my place. And you all report that an announcement regarding the commercial/residential redevelopment of Kennedy Square is expected soon**. It's a good place to be.
**Full disclosure: I'm rather apprehensive about the Kennedy Square redevelopment. The local powers-that-be just don't have a good track record with putting such projects out to bid and ensuring that the finished product is a good one (see: nearly every development project, public or private, in the past half-century). Private developers cut corners, get tax breaks, and the city/county/state look the other way (I just walked past the Butler Building in the Armory yesterday; the developer ripped up the city's brick sidewalk and tree boxes and laid down a concrete sidewalk with no trees, all in the midst of one of the county's neighborhoods of focus in its Save the Rain program).
At minimum, I hope the Kennedy Square development limits public housing, buries utilities, and ensures the restoration of the city street grid (Irving and East Washington).
Last edited by Cleveland Park; 07-01-2011 at 09:52 AM..
Reason: grammar
Yeah, Mulberry Square was torn down in the late 80's/early 90's. People went all over the area too. For instance, a kid I played ball against in HS grew up there until it was torn down and he ended up in the Phoenix SD.
I'm not sure as to what led to the demise of. That housing area though.
Mulberry Square was not a public housing project per se. It was targeted at rentals to fixed income and lower income people but was privately owned (if I recall correctly.) It was of incredibly shoddy construction and was moderately high density but the buildings were only two stories tall. I think a contractor who had connections with and made payoffs to former Mayor Lee Alexander was the builder. Between chronic mechanical issues (sewer backups, leaky roofs, sliding glass balcony doors that were insecure etc.) and increasing crime problems it became half empty in only years rather than decades.
It's ironic that Pioneer Homes, the first public housing project in all of NY state and one of the oldest in the nation, is immediately adjacent to the old Mulberry Square site. Pioneer Homes has far fewer problems than other public housing projects in Syracuse from both a crime and a physical condition standpoint (at least that is my impression.) McKinney Manor, which replaced Mulberry Square, was built in accordance with lower density requirements that were prompted in part by the disastrous results of high density public housing (Cherry Hill, Kennedy Square, Townsend Towers etc.) I agree that it's a bit of an odd duck in terms of appearance but it has been maintained in good condition (appears to be the case on the outside) and I have not heard of any notable issues there with crime or other problems.
@cp - you're really at the edge of what was the 15th Ward. From where you sit and out through the East side around East Genesee, East Fayette and Lexington, there has been a real improvement in recent years. University Hill realty bought most of the houses on the south side of Genesee between Comstock and Beech and has improved them immensely. Housing Visions has been hard at work throughout that entire area as well.
My dream is to see the two separate brick projects on Fayette get replaced - one at a time... and have a new lower density housing that is run by SHA or Housing Visions - both of whom do a much better job of screening and maintaining standards for who is allowed to move in and who gets to keep living there. If that ever happened it would be bad news for a few small parts of the South, West and North sides because the riff-raff who are the major problem in the bricks on Fayette would have to go elsewhere and the decent people would get to stay. Call me a dreamer.
Those projects on Fayette really are something - a true blight on the city. It's unfortunate that the owner of the westernmost property (not Rolling Green, the other one) was able to take stimulus money and spend it on cosmetic improvements a couple years ago. Should've used it to screen the residents and ban the riff-raff.
This end of the ward is definitely the most improved, but I'm impressed that the whole neighborhood is diverse and has a comfortable atmosphere about it. Northeast of here, beyond Kennedy Square toward the Center of Excellence (I'm not sure if that is still the 15th or not; looking at a map, it looks like I'm right on the edge of the 15th and 16th), the streets are pretty quiet, but people are quite friendly - quick with a smile and a hello. That's something I don't see downtown or on the Hill.
Or some of those people go to certain suburbs, which has been the case in many other metros around the country.
Yeah, did you see that piece about Memphis in The Atlantic about three years ago? I know Memphis is probably an extreme example - it's one of the largest (size-wise, not most populous) and most crime-ridden cities in the country - but demolition of their projects and careless distribution of Section 8 vouchers is having a disastrous effect on outlying neighborhoods all over the city.
It's likely this will be a problem in many American cities during this century. Demolition of projects and gentrification of inner cities will scatter problems across inner-ring suburbs; the problems will be exacerbated as the inner-ring areas see disinvestment due to renewed interest in cities and continued interest in exurbs. Could be a rocky transition; locally, it would be nice if the ill-effects of this were mitigated by increased interest in consolidation.
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