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People may trade in their gas guzzling SUV's for smaller hybrids or electric cars eventually when gas reaches $10 or $15 per gallon (which it will)
I'm sure you were exaggerating for effect, but what has been seen since 2007-2008 is that even small increases in gas price cause people to reconsider their mode of travel. They aren't necessarily giving up their cars, but if you look at vehicle sales, smaller, compact and hybrid cars have increased as a percentage of total sales and make up a much larger portion than they have in 20-30 years. This is helped by the fact that automakers are producing more appealing smaller cars, but I think that speaks to the demand for them. All this occured with an increase in gas prices to just over $4 a gallon and has persisted through the downturn.
VMT is also down and transit ridership is up, even if you account for decrease in employment.
Actually, Atlanta as a city is only 3 times bigger than Syracuse and its sprawling metro is about 8 times bigger. Syracuse as a city and metro is still more dense.
So a train would come in facing a population where 10% walk, possibly for there own reasons, (health, live nextdoor and so on), 7% that ride buses and are already being served well or at least well enough.
That leaves the 80% that get to work by car. And away from the actual downtown that number quickly gets over 99%. And thats just the city itself, I'm sure the outer 'burbs can top that 99% number.
And 750 million just to go from the school to the airport?? That would mean a full system would be billions. Where in heavens name is CNY gonna come up with that kinda bling-bling??
Are people in the suburbs really howling to spend a billion dollars so they can pay for a 20 thousand dollar car, park it, and ride that god aweful last 2 miles to work?? Is it really that bad for them?? Tell them to get there hours changed by one hour. I try and arrive in Syracuse after 9AM and the roads are empty and parking is easy-peasy lemony squeezy.
I just don't see were we are having any problems here with transit. I will continue to be a supporter of trains in big cities but not here. To me the point would be to have millions of people not needing a car at all. Here maybe a few dozen could go car free but most of us would still need a car and all would still want one. So then we'd be stuck paying for both.
Also people building trains have to think 20 years out. This area either stays the same or shrinks back and forth. IIRC its like 2% around here. Well 2% of 650K just doesn't create future transit problems to me. So what we have works and will continue to work. Even if a city like Atlanta had our anemic growth rate they would be adding a city the size of Oneida every 2 years. And adding a city the size of Syracuse every 10 and Rochester every 20. But of coarse they are growing much faster then that. For perspective the Atlanta of Gone With The Wind fame was smaller then present day Oneida. So they have to shoe horn in things that seem overkill and just grow into them. We are staying flat and what growth we do have is suburban meaning we will need trains even less moving forward.
We need to demand these services from the private sector. If people clamor to patronize their business if certain routes are made, the private market will bear it. Voting with the dollar.
I find it completely ludicrous that there are no direct routes to Hancock airport. However, I have no dollar to vote with, for that route. People need to stop kvetching to their peers and direct their sentiments toward these companies themselves. If there is a need to fill, regarding transportation, and the number is sufficiently profitable, the private sector WILL provide it. If it is not profitable enough for a private company to do, it's not worthwhile... and forcing it via a "public work" only brings the burden of a useless project back onto the taxpayers.
We need to demand these services from the private sector. If people clamor to patronize their business if certain routes are made, the private market will bear it. Voting with the dollar.
I find it completely ludicrous that there are no direct routes to Hancock airport. However, I have no dollar to vote with, for that route. People need to stop kvetching to their peers and direct their sentiments toward these companies themselves. If there is a need to fill, regarding transportation, and the number is sufficiently profitable, the private sector WILL provide it. If it is not profitable enough for a private company to do, it's not worthwhile... and forcing it via a "public work" only brings the burden of a useless project back onto the taxpayers.
The private sector has shown little interest in most forms of mass passenger transportation because it is inherently not profitable - excepting taxis, for the most part, and they're heavily regulated. And taxis operate on heavily subsidized public roads.
We used to have private toll roads all over the place here. It's a foolish idea if you want to actually get anywhere.
The private sector has shown little interest in most forms of mass passenger transportation because it is inherently not profitable - excepting taxis, for the most part, and they're heavily regulated. And taxis operate on heavily subsidized public roads.
We used to have private toll roads all over the place here. It's a foolish idea if you want to actually get anywhere.
Some things are public needs. We all want roads so we pay for them, via taxes.
And I'm not sure how providing a *service* at a loss on a public level is financially acceptable. WE take those losses, not the government. Those losses are made up through increased taxation.
SUV sales may be up, but that is off of an historically low number. SUV sales were cut in half between 2005 and 2009. If you're looking at period over period change, you might think the trend was back to SUVs, but you have to look at change in vehicle segment sales as a percentage of total vehicle sales. SUV sales as a percentage of total vehicle sales have decreased every year since 2005 and declined dramatically in 2008. Small car sales have increased as a percentage of total sales every year since 2005 except for 2010, but are up as a percentage of sales from ~12% in 2005 to ~16% so far in 2011. Attached is the data I have looked at.
Some things are public needs. We all want roads so we pay for them, via taxes.
And I'm not sure how providing a *service* at a loss on a public level is financially acceptable. WE take those losses, not the government. Those losses are made up through increased taxation.
Transportation in general is a public need - it serves (and enables) most of our entire economic infrastructure.
Increased non-road usage mitigates road usage, which lowers maintenance costs on that end. All of them cost money.
Every road in this country that isn't tolled is a service taking a loss. I don't think public mass transportation should be any different, especially since there are substantial barriers that would prevent any private enterprise outside of heavy rail from being able to start up such services - since any form of rail requires right of way acquisitions that aren't feasible if even possible for most businesses.
All forms of mass transportation are infrastructure, infrastructure that is traditionally the government's role in our economy. Are you suggesting that that should change?
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