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As syracuse.com runs front-page stories about locals' disdain for parking regulations and the tickets that accompany violation of those regulations, perhaps we could take a lesson from Norfolk (whose problems mirror Syracuse's, but whose leaders have been a good bit more progressive than ours).
The Hampton Roads metro area overall has 1.7 million people... of that total Virginia Beach about 437,000 and Norfolk about 240,000.
I'm not saying that a light rail system couldn't succeed in Syracuse but our population distribution and density relative to the geographic disbursements of employment make it far less likely that such a system coudl achieve even a modicum of success in Syracuse. the additional costs fostered by the physical requirements of a system that woudl withstand our severe winters woudl increase cost.
That being said... if you could procure $400 million in funding to install a 7 or 8 mile light rail system in this area - where would it go, who would it serve, what would they be using it for and why would they opt to use it instead of driving their cars?
I ask these questions in the interest of having dialogue. I see many proposals for the Syracuse area that *sound* good but in many cases the details haven't been thought through very thoroughly. And if after assessing it you feel that light rail wouldn't be practical here (which is my initial opinion - open to being changed) then how would you spend that $400 million on the local public transportation infrastructure to improve it?
As the story said its the smallest city with light rail. And its 2-3 times bigger then Syracuse. This is a car area. Everything is so sprawled out. So you really need to have a car so even if the train was handy for somethings you'd still have the expense of keeping one so why not just drive it.
I could see a much scaled down version like a trolley working within the city itself but much more prosperity would have to come first. A truly car free life would be super. Maybe even run it all the way down Erie Blvd. with stops every so often and all the malls.
A light-rail or similar system is a nice thought for a large city with constant traffic-jams or a need to travel across a large many-mile Metro area quickly or a destination resort metro area/city such as Orlando-FL but Metro Syracuse has none of these conditions.
Unfortunately, I believe the Metro Syracuse area is too small (in population and land-mass occupied) to support a Monorail or light-rail or trolley or whatever type rail-system other than our current CENTRO bus service. Yeah, I'd love to see some sort of Monorail system running say from the Cicero/Brewerton area to North Syracuse to the Airport to Mattydale to the Transportation Center to Carousel Center to Inner-Harbor to Franklin Square to downtown Syr. AND from Baldwinsville thru Liverpool to the Transportation Center to Carousel Center to downtown Syr. AND from Manlius to Fayetteville to Dewitt to the University Hill area to downtown Syr. to the Transportation Center AND from outer-Camillus to Fairmount to the Fairgrounds to Carousel Center to downtown Syracuse BUT the rail-system passenger cars would be EMPTY except for 4 or 5 passengers; imagine the taxpayer subsidies the system would require=it would bankrupt the County or whoever backed the system. Don't get me wrong, I'm W-A-Y -- M-O-R-E progressive and optimistic than MOST PEOPLE who live in Central New York BUT, I have to be realistic in this case and realize that any transit system other than our current CENTRO bus service would be a failure; NOT be used by citizens except for those people who can not afford the expense of owning and maintaining a reliable car because of their low wage jobs=I'm happy that there is at least CENTRO for people who have to depend on public transit.
As Sean said-and I agree with him wholeheartedly, Metro Syracuse is a car driving area for better or worse. An average Metro Syracuse resident simply isn't going to use Monorail or even CENTRO bus service except as a back-up or emergency travel and even then they might call a taxi-cab. I can drive from Dewitt/East Syracuse to downtown Syr. in about 12/14 minutes. I can drive from Dewitt/East Syracuse to Cicero in about 18 minutes. I can drive from Cicero to downtown Syr. in about 18 minutes. Camillus to downtown Syr. in about 18 minutes. Etc. Basically, no traffic-jams, easy/quick/convenient highways, travel without delay anytime day or night at any hour/minute=no waiting for public transit system.
I don't believe that a Monorail or light-rail system would be successful in Larger Metro Rochester either which has a population almost twice the size of Metro Syracuse and covers/spreads across a way-bigger land area than Metro Syracuse and Rochester does have some traffic-jams during high traffic periods.
If Metro Syracuse had say, 3 major amusement parks similar to the attractions in Orlando-FL: One major amusement park up in the countryside eastern Cicero/western Cicero area, AND a Second major amusement park out in countryside Pompey-near Manlius/near Kirkville, AND a Third major amusement park in the Camillus/Warners countryside area, those Amusement Parks would start to make a Monorail/light-rail system more feasible/monetarily break-even only because of the Visitors/Tourists who would visit Metro Syracuse and not want to have to use/drive their cars to get around/use the Monorail-relax. Like I said, I'd love to see a Metro Area Monorail system and I'm VERY PROGRESSIVE but alas, Metro Syracuse is just too small in its present-day situation for anything beyond CENTRO bus service.
Its great that you do post some/many thought provoking subjects/Posts. Its "refreshing" that some people like yourself are thinking about solutions to situations/thinking about improvements/looking toward the future/expressing a progressive outlook; we need more people like you who have positive/optimistic/progressive ideas about Metro Syracuse being a successful/forward looking/revitalized/vigorous/robust/energetic Center City and Metro area. There are so many people around who are opposed to ANYTHING NEW or who simply have negative outlooks on everything about Metro Syracuse and Central New York. Whether or not I always agree with you, I really like hearing about your progressive and optimistic ideas for improving Central New York.
Its a very odd World we live in. I can think of 90 million reasons why trains should be the norm but the rest of the World can't think of one.
In the crazy bizzaro World (the real one) we, meaning me included, talk of Syracuse being way to small for trains. But in the past, you know when New York was the EMPIRE State, the heck with Syracuse of coarse it had rail, but even Oneida and Herkimer were served by rail. Part of living in town was not having to own a stupid car. Of coarse gas was what like a quarter and they all had small motors. Now we are hooked on V-8's and 3 miles for a loaf of bread seems normal.
My grandfather talked of the Valley trolley all the time, it was gone 30 years before I was even born although I later drank alot of beer on the still standing bridge. You would actually think trains would catch on now days as every retard in this area seems to want to send 3000 text messages on the way to work. Maybe thats how we can sell trains, "text your little heart out without killing the guy on the bicycle!!!"
But gas would have to stay expensive for it to work and I read this morning gas is under 3 dollars outside NY. And of coarse the messy business of cars using oil from the Middle East while trains would use NG from locally available gas wells or better still new nuke plants.
I also think that if rail were found to be viable, the best route and least expensive alternative would still be the NYSW/former Ontrack route. It runs past or near most of the major destinations in the city and connects to underused rails that travel north through Liverpool and Cicero and south through Jamesville.
If it was run by or coordinated with Centro, was advertised, and gas was $4.75+ a gallon consistently, I think it might be able to work, actually, given the relatively small capital investment necessary to get it going
White Plains , Yonkers , New Brunswick , Silver Spring , Bethesda , New Haven , Bridgeport , Stamford , Providence , Worcester , Springfield , and Hartford are studying or building small / medium Streetcar , Light Rail or Bus Rapid Transit lines / systems. White Plains and much of Southern Westchester County used to be sprawl but they changed that around. Now its half / half , most of the Hudson Valley has followed suite. Theres no reason Syracuse can't....sprawl and auto-Centric aren't excuses....the cost can be worked around very easily.
The story said 320 million. In NY figure at least 400 million with the union stalling.
Thats a pretty big nut in this broke area.
Then like grdnrman said you'd have 5 people in each car. Nobody up here walks. Anywhere, ever. I see people all the time drive from one store in a strip mall to the next. Tonite (I'm not kidding) at price Chopper as I was loading my backpack I watched a woman in a Tahoe drive around the parking lot 3 times looking for a closer spot. That parking lot is tiny, in 5 minutes you could walk it diagonally 3 times. How on Earth would you convince people here to walk 3 blocks to work from the train station??
Another problem is the parts of Upstate that were easy on a train are the abandoned parts. All the new places that people actually go are make for cars. Yesterday I had to mail a package here in town, the Post Office is the only thing left downtown. Then I had to head uptown to shop. Syracuse is the same on a vastly larger scale. The streetcars were great for bringing everyone DT but nothing is there. Syracuse has one of the most beautiful downtown's I have ever seen but nothing is there anymore. So it would have to go on one of the sprawl roads like Erie and I would have to get on and off the train.
Screw that, I love trains and even I would still drive my car.
So many things have changed. My parents bought their first house (which they still live in) before they owned a car. That was in 1955 but there were things that were challenging for them even then. My dad walked to work and department store / clothes shopping as an easy bus ride away in downtown. But try taking a toddler and a baby plus two adults to church on a Sunday when the church is 3/4 mile away and there's a few feet of snow on the ground. With the help of neighbors and family they got through for the first few years until they could afford a car but even then - not easy. There were eight "large" grocery stores and four neighborhood markets (all with their own butchers) within a 3/4 mile radius of our house. Today there is only one "large" grocery store - Tops on Nottingham Road - which is 3X the size of the older "large" stores but still much smaller than the big Price Choppers and Wegmans. I look forward to someday living in a place where I can just use a car share service on occasion and walk for everything else but this community won't be the palce where I can do that. :-(
So many things have changed. My parents bought their first house (which they still live in) before they owned a car. That was in 1955 but there were things that were challenging for them even then. My dad walked to work and department store / clothes shopping as an easy bus ride away in downtown. But try taking a toddler and a baby plus two adults to church on a Sunday when the church is 3/4 mile away and there's a few feet of snow on the ground. With the help of neighbors and family they got through for the first few years until they could afford a car but even then - not easy. There were eight "large" grocery stores and four neighborhood markets (all with their own butchers) within a 3/4 mile radius of our house. Today there is only one "large" grocery store - Tops on Nottingham Road - which is 3X the size of the older "large" stores but still much smaller than the big Price Choppers and Wegmans. I look forward to someday living in a place where I can just use a car share service on occasion and walk for everything else but this community won't be the palce where I can do that. :-(
You could do that in Manlius! :P
We don't NEED a car but we have one... and if I didn't visit my parents in Fabius-Pompey regularly, a car-share service or periodic rental would be more of a realistic practice. If they lived in the village, here, I would seriously consider not having a vehicle of our own. But really, that won't ever happen because they love living in the country and having land and we plan to be out there in a short number of years as well.
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Area is Too Small
