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We did challenge the assessment and went all the way to NYS assessment board - we lost. Big shocker there [NOT].
There are no other property tax exemptions to take until I turn 65 and then I can get the senior citizen discount. I won't turn 65 for another 19 years, if I even live that long (doubt it).
The Town of Sullivan does have snow removal (I stated that in my original post). In the end property taxes in New York State are OUTRAGEOUS and getting worse each year (especially the school taxes).
I calculated that 48%-52% of my income goes toward taxes PER YEAR. That includes all the NYS/County/Town taxes (utility, phone, gas, income, property, sales, regulation fees, etc.). Yeah, my income sucks, but that is still a lot to pay in taxes, percentage wise.
I now know why many small businesses can not make it in NYS, the taxes are unbearable for a small business just starting out. Sorry, I call it like it is, and I have lived in NYS for most of my 46 years.
I don't think that anyone thinks that the tax situation is fine in NY. My point was about overall cost of living not really being that different, when looking at the bigger picture, in many cases.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 02-03-2013 at 12:02 PM..
you cannot trust those real estate websites for taxes.
not all cities and towns tax at the full assessed rate.
I laugh everytime I read the "House of the Week" article on Syracuse.com (it is a weekly article on Sunday that promotes a house for sale in the Syracuse area). The realtors promoting/selling the house will list the sale price, square footage, bedrooms, etc. and they also list the property taxes for the house.
Unfortunately, the property taxes listed for the house is the current property taxes, NOT the property taxes the new owner will pay on the house. Many of the houses for sale in the weekly article have not had a reassessment in years (perhaps a decade), once the property is sold, and if it sells for more the property is automatically reassessed and the property taxes shoot up.
For example, last week there was a house listed for $384,500. The house is in Syracuse here is what the article stated about the house:
PRICE: $384,500.
SIZE: 2,689 square feet.
LOT SIZE: 0.3 acre.
MONTHLY MORTGAGE: $1,368.*
TAXES: $6,342.
BUILT: 1916.
SCHOOL DISTRICT: Syracuse.
Now there is no way in hell a house worth $384,500 is going to be paying $6,342 in property taxes per year. If the house sells for $384,500 the taxes will be closer to $12,000 a year.
I laughed when I saw that and I said to myself the house was probably assessed at $180,000. I then went on the Onondaga County Assessment web site and looked it up. Wouldn't you know it is currently assessed at $175,000 (full market value of $207,000)
So yeah, I wouldn't put too much faith into real estate web sites property tax info.
I laugh everytime I read the "House of the Week" article on Syracuse.com (it is a weekly article on Sunday that promotes a house for sale in the Syracuse area). The realtors promoting/selling the house will list the sale price, square footage, bedrooms, etc. and they also list the property taxes for the house.
Unfortunately, the property taxes listed for the house is the current property taxes, NOT the property taxes the new owner will pay on the house. Many of the houses for sale in the weekly article have not had a reassessment in years (perhaps a decade), once the property is sold, and if it sells for more the property is automatically reassessed and the property taxes shoot up.
For example, last week there was a house listed for $384,500. The house is in Syracuse here is what the article stated about the house:
PRICE: $384,500.
SIZE: 2,689 square feet.
LOT SIZE: 0.3 acre.
MONTHLY MORTGAGE: $1,368.*
TAXES: $6,342.
BUILT: 1916.
SCHOOL DISTRICT: Syracuse.
Now there is no way in hell a house worth $384,500 is going to be paying $6,342 in property taxes per year. If the house sells for $384,500 the taxes will be closer to $12,000 a year.
I laughed when I saw that and I said to myself the house was probably assessed at $180,000. I then went on the Onondaga County Assessment web site and looked it up. Wouldn't you know it is currently assessed at $175,000 (full market value of $207,000)
So yeah, I wouldn't put too much faith into real estate web sites property tax info.
It depends on the area, specifically, but the assessment doesn't increase, based on the sale, as a given. The assessment is not based on sale value, around here.
That's why it's important to look up a property on the county website... you can see whether the tax will change and, if so, by how much.
Having lived in NC (where I am from), many NYers are surprised by the differences they find once they move to NC. For example, many, especially those moving to Charlotte or Raleigh thought they would be upgrading substantially. However, home prices (not the tax rates) are actually generally more affordable in large metro areas (Rochester, Buffalo etc.) in comparison to RDU and Charlotte. When rates were not at 3.5% this was much more of an equalizer. Additionally, the urban sprawl seems to take its toll on people. Aside from a few select parts of the major cities in NC, there is often not much of a "community" feel. The communities that are more urban and walkable with nice housing (5 points in Raleigh, around franklin street in Chapel Hill) are very expensive 400k minimum for a decent house, and probably 600k on average. Most areas rely heavily on strip malls and developments. This is fine for the vast majority of people, but often it is challenging to meet people in these types of communities.
Additionally, the Raleigh/Cary area is constantly changing school districts. So while the taxes are indeed much cheaper, your child may be re-zoned with just a few months notice. This has outraged many people. While some have posted that there is not much humidity, my guess is that they have not spent much time in NC in the summer. Aside from the coastal areas, 90 degrees in NC is miserable. Humidity is horrible in the summer here. Yes people in the early 1900s went without A/C, but that is not the case now (which is a good thing since many elderly died during the times without A/C during heat waves). Additionally, comparing Boone to Raleigh or Charlotte is like comparing Utica to NYC.
My point is not to say one is better than the other, I think NC is a great state. However, it is a state that is changing. Many are surprised at the differences in their expectations after spending a longer period here. Regardless, I think Boone would be an awesome place to live, one of the most peaceful places around and I wish you all the best!
I don't think that anyone thinks that the tax situation is fine in NY. My point was about overall cost of living not really being that different, when looking at the bigger picture, in many cases.
This sums it up well. Taxes are only part of the picture. Property taxes are out of control in NY, no doubt. If I can save $6000 in property taxes by moving to another area, but the average salary for my job is 10k less, what sense does that make?
RaleighPhD and ncnittany, thank you for explaining what I've been trying to say on here for years. I'm not saying that Upstate NY is "better" than these places, but when looking at the bigger, complete picture, things pretty much even out(give or take).
I believe that the property tax percentage average is around 2.5%, by the way.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 02-04-2013 at 05:52 AM..
It depends on the area, specifically, but the assessment doesn't increase, based on the sale, as a given. The assessment is not based on sale value, around here.
That's why it's important to look up a property on the county website... you can see whether the tax will change and, if so, by how much.
Unfortunately in Madison County they base the assessment value on the "market value" of the house - what it will sell for. When we went to the NYS Assessment board back in 2010, the Assessment Officer told us they base assessments on current sale prices of comparable houses.
At the SCAR meeting we brought with us documentation of eight comparable properties that were assessed lower than our property (the properties averaged between $98,000-$105,000 full market value), the assessor brought with her two comparable properties that had just sold within the past 3 years (one sold for $128,000, the other for $125,000).
We wanted a full market value of $98,000 (our full market value was currently $125,000).
We lost. Our house stayed at $125,000 full market value ($105,000 assessed value - 85%)
Why? Because the Assessment officer said they base assessment value on the full market value - what a house will sell for within the past 3 years. He said when a house sells for more than the current assessed value, the assessment is automatically increased. Unfortunately when it is sold for less than the current assessed value, you have to challenge your assessment as it is usually not automatically decreased. We know that because we have property in Madison County that we demolished a building on and we had to go to the assessment office and challenge the assessment lower and make it a vacant property classification. I am assuming the county looks at current sales and adjusts their assessments, based upon what the assessment officer told me at the SCAR meeting.
Oh well, either way, property taxes are too high in New York State.
On my limited income I am going to need to find a more reasonable area in the country to live with regard to property taxes, $4000+ a year in property taxes is too much on a simple two bedroom one bath house. Once I turn 50 (if I live that long), maybe I will look the 50+ Mobile Home parks in sunnier, warmer climates.
I laugh everytime I read the "House of the Week" article on Syracuse.com (it is a weekly article on Sunday that promotes a house for sale in the Syracuse area). The realtors promoting/selling the house will list the sale price, square footage, bedrooms, etc. and they also list the property taxes for the house.
Unfortunately, the property taxes listed for the house is the current property taxes, NOT the property taxes the new owner will pay on the house. Many of the houses for sale in the weekly article have not had a reassessment in years (perhaps a decade), once the property is sold, and if it sells for more the property is automatically reassessed and the property taxes shoot up.
For example, last week there was a house listed for $384,500. The house is in Syracuse here is what the article stated about the house:
PRICE: $384,500.
SIZE: 2,689 square feet.
LOT SIZE: 0.3 acre.
MONTHLY MORTGAGE: $1,368.*
TAXES: $6,342.
BUILT: 1916.
SCHOOL DISTRICT: Syracuse.
Now there is no way in hell a house worth $384,500 is going to be paying $6,342 in property taxes per year. If the house sells for $384,500 the taxes will be closer to $12,000 a year.
I laughed when I saw that and I said to myself the house was probably assessed at $180,000. I then went on the Onondaga County Assessment web site and looked it up. Wouldn't you know it is currently assessed at $175,000 (full market value of $207,000)
So yeah, I wouldn't put too much faith into real estate web sites property tax info.
The city of Syracuse proper is very slow to catch up on assessments. I bought my house in 2009, and my assessment hasn't changed - and its assessment, for tax purposes, is what it sold for three sales and $35k ago... so yes, in Syracuse proper at least, that's very possible.
So the city of Syracuse leaves money on the table??
Here in Oneida we get reaccessed anytime it changes hands. The numbers they come up with would be funny to look at from afar. I'd love to sell my house for a fraction of what the city says its worth.
RaleighPhD and ncnittany, thank you for explaining what I've been trying to say on here for years. I'm not saying that Upstate NY is "better" than these places, but when looking at the bigger, complete picture, things pretty much even out(give or take).
I believe that the property tax percentage average is around 2.5%, by the way.
I also don't think anyone here said that NC was better than Upstate NY either. For my part, I argued that for most people, NC is cheaper. But I always said that its a matter of personal preference as to which one you like better. The cost aspect, at least for most of the population, can't really be argued that NY is on par or cheaper than NC. Some people like the guy who argues from Arizona about how much he hates Upstate obviously has an agenda and a bone to pick.
I've defended Syracuse and personally like Syracuse, but facts are facts. Putting everything else aside, like weather and exemptions, and tax on cars, and annexing land, etc and just look at the impact of taxes. If you buy a $150,000 house, the taxes in NC are $1k and in Syracuse are $4k. Lets be realistic about this. If I take that extra $3k a year, that's a $90k principle payment over 30 years. That's $250 a month that can be made to shorten the life of that mortgage to 18 years. So, to the person who has 19 years to retire, it could be critical. You're saving a $750 monthly payment for 12 years. To many people, this is huge.
I've argued for years that in parts of metro NY and NJ where taxes can be $8k, $10k or even $12k or more in a year, that it is usurious and you are only renting the house from the government, in reality. The minute you cannot make a $1000 a month payment, the govt will take your house. So, there's less risk of that in NC and lesser property-taxed areas. Fortunate for Upstate, most tax rates are not as high as NJ and Long Island. But its something to think about, as one day after the mortgage is paid, having a $4k or more in a single property tax bill can be a significant portion of your income.
In other words, you can control car tax by owning no car or owning a 1987 Buick.
You can control healthcare *to some degree* by eating well and exercising and not smoking
You can control sales tax by not buying things
You can avoid tolls by not using toll roads
But its impossible to avoid property taxes. Everyone needs shelter.
The rest of the arguing really comes down to personal preference, and Syracuse holds it own against Raleigh just fine to me. I do agree that there has been a lot of positive improvements in Syracuse, and its great to see. However, it cannot be ignored that NC has seen a lot of people from NY pouring into the area for good reason. Bottom line is, you can live well in both areas, just as you can live well in Rochester and Charlotte and Arizona too.
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