Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Not to get off topic, but seeing as my sister lives in Troy, I frequent the area. I have never EVER thought rents to be expensive there. My sister and her fiancee rent a large 4 bedroom apt in a brownstone for less than $1000. I have a friend around the corner in a 2 bedroom for around $500. Now if you're talking about complexes, sure they're more expensive than flats, duplexes, etc. I personally prefer the old charm of historic buildings and brownstones to any complex. Plus most of the complexes in Troy are not in the downtown area where all of the action is.
I will actually be out there for Memorial Day weekend - looking forward to it
Syracuse and Altoona aren't even close and Baldwinsville, as an area is fine. My point is that the apartments are similar and are in similar settings. Given the sprawled out nature of Raleigh and the location of that apartment, it is pretty much very similar(all things considered and info posted). Raleigh is a functional, growing city and not a destination in the same sense as the even smaller Northeastern cities you are comparing it to. Again, that apartment isn't in Troy and there seems to be a market for such housing in the area(perhaps RPI and HVCC faculty/staff, those that want to get to the Berkshires with less traffic, etc).
You always make my point. My point was that comparing Syracuse to Raleigh was like comparing Syracuse to Altoona. Can't really be done. They're orders of magnitude larger, and therefore, way different. Baldwinsville is fine, I agree. But its not in any way similar to that part of Raleigh. That area of Raleigh is filled with high end stores and expensive homes, check out Brier Creek etc. That area has a Budweiser factory. It is what it is. We all need stores and we all need Budweiser. But they're still different in feel.
The destination part I'm not sure of. Its not a destination in the tourist sense, but the research triangle does get a lot of business travelers. All around that area, there are many different languages heard and RDU has direct flights to Europe, etc. Its not a tourist destination, but definitely a business destination.
Not to get off topic, but seeing as my sister lives in Troy, I frequent the area. I have never EVER thought rents to be expensive there. My sister and her fiancee rent a large 4 bedroom apt in a brownstone for less than $1000. I have a friend around the corner in a 2 bedroom for around $500. Now if you're talking about complexes, sure they're more expensive than flats, duplexes, etc. I personally prefer the old charm of historic buildings and brownstones to any complex. Plus most of the complexes in Troy are not in the downtown area where all of the action is.
I will actually be out there for Memorial Day weekend - looking forward to it
Rents in Troy proper are probably cheap, but for me personally, I don't consider it a desirable area. Some people love the character and don't mind living among a lot of abandoned properties. To each his own. The complexes outside Troy, all over the A-S-T area seem expensive for what you get and not really in line with the salaries there. Or they are in bad condition and then cheap enough to afford.
Some areas in Troy are nice, like the brownstones along 3rd st, but some are pretty bad, like the Little Italy section which didn't look at all Italian or inviting or have any Italian restaurants that I could see. That's just how I feel about the city.
Albany gets a lot of flack from people on here, but I actually like it. The western area by St. Rose especially is really nice.
I'm going to preface this by saying that I've agreed for the last few pages. lol - it's just different, down there, and it's perfect for some and less-than-ideal for others.
But Saratoga is not at all comparable to a regular southern/low taxes town, especially not a place where the median *per capita* income is $15K/year. It's an old-rich area, close to the Adirondacks, the capital, and focused around the old traditions of horse racing. You'd have to compare with places like that... Churchill Downs area, perhaps. And even then, you wouldn't be 2 hours from Boston and New York, where MANY have enough disposable income to maintain a separate residence for weekends and summer holidays... enough people to rightfully inflate what would otherwise be a more affordable housing market. Saratoga's per capita income is $26K/year and that's mostly just the regular people who remain year-round.
And The Paddocks are ghastly, imo. lol - there I go again, hating the development colonies that pop up across the landscape. It's a sickly-looking, thick cluster of yellow boxes in a gravel-filled swamp, right off the Northway.
I agree with Saratoga not being comparable to areas down South, but Saratoga is becoming the 4th major city of the A-S-T area, with a lot of newer residents moving in and not as much old money (though the old money certainly overwhelms the area, especially in August).
Which place has a median per capita income of $15k? I'm curious.
Your point about being inflated is really only the point I'm trying to make about the northeast. I'm simply stating that it makes it tough to live there. From Maine to NH to VT and right into eastern NY, its a lot of inflated prices for not so nice dwellings to live in. The large custom house on the hill in VT with the amazing view is nearly 100% guaranteed not to be owned by a native Vermonter. Its a huge problem in that state, as well as surrounding states, and just read the forums to see many others relocating or complaining about this.
I can related to the people who move south or out to Arizona to get a piece of their slice of heaven and not have to struggle to afford a run-down garden apartment in places across the northeast.
And you would not like it here! The South is not for you....if you don't like the Paddocks (I happen to like that style of apartment) don't move here cause its pretty much all like that (more trees here though)! The price is mind boggling being right off the Northway, but its a pretty setting (IMO) with the cattails and small lakes. Feels kinda southern. I drove in there and its right next to the interstate though.
You always make my point. My point was that comparing Syracuse to Raleigh was like comparing Syracuse to Altoona. Can't really be done. They're orders of magnitude larger, and therefore, way different. Baldwinsville is fine, I agree. But its not in any way similar to that part of Raleigh. That area of Raleigh is filled with high end stores and expensive homes, check out Brier Creek etc. That area has a Budweiser factory. It is what it is. We all need stores and we all need Budweiser. But they're still different in feel.
The destination part I'm not sure of. Its not a destination in the tourist sense, but the research triangle does get a lot of business travelers. All around that area, there are many different languages heard and RDU has direct flights to Europe, etc. Its not a tourist destination, but definitely a business destination.
No, my point is different and Radisson is a planned community with a corporate park. So, don't let the Budweiser Plant fool you. There are plenty of nice homes in Radisson and nearby, along with shopping down Route 31. That doesn't seem to be that much different than that area of Raleigh, upscale or not.
Also, you are contradicting yourself by mentioning Troy and Albany, in a Syracuse forum no less. So, its either no comparison or continue to compare. Which is it? If we are going to keep comparing, then it is hard to deny the similarities between the Radisson and North Raleigh situations.
As for destination, I mean that most of those smaller Northeastern cities are tourist destinations.
Such development isn't necessarily exclusively "Southern", but it is your usual suburbanized, new style development that can be found in areas in all regions.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 05-14-2013 at 11:21 AM..
Like I said, I really have no horse in this race, I have no desire whatsoever to live in the Northeast anymore. Clearly I was talking about the Northeast in general and mentioned that at least 5 times. You brought Syracuse into it, and I was disagreeing that Baldwinsville and northwest Raleigh are similar. I stand by that statement, and its difficult to explain that to someone who has not been to both locations, as I have. So either agree to disagree or take a trip down and see for yourself.
As just one difference, the population density is double in Baldwinsville as that zip code in Raleigh. The demographics are also different. Its spread out here, and there's no central town in that area like Baldwinsville village. I have no issue with Baldwinsville nor do I think its an economy based on a Budweiser plant, I only mentioned that there was one there to complete the description. Its not that big of a deal.
Its a moot point though, because like more inland areas of the Northeast like Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Altoona, etc there are other factors about these cities that make them less desirable than the cities further east. And therefore, cheaper. Weather is one factor, the loss of manufacturing that has hit western and central NY more than eastern NY and New England, more industrial landscape, the ability of the eastern areas to bounce back quicker, proximity to the ocean, etc. there's a palpable difference.
Like I said, I really have no horse in this race, I have no desire whatsoever to live in the Northeast anymore. Clearly I was talking about the Northeast in general and mentioned that at least 5 times. You brought Syracuse into it, and I was disagreeing that Baldwinsville and northwest Raleigh are similar. I stand by that statement, and its difficult to explain that to someone who has not been to both locations, as I have. So either agree to disagree or take a trip down and see for yourself.
As just one difference, the population density is double in Baldwinsville as that zip code in Raleigh. The demographics are also different. Its spread out here, and there's no central town in that area like Baldwinsville village. I have no issue with Baldwinsville nor do I think its an economy based on a Budweiser plant, I only mentioned that there was one there to complete the description. Its not that big of a deal.
Its a moot point though, because like more inland areas of the Northeast like Syracuse, Rochester, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Altoona, etc there are other factors about these cities that make them less desirable than the cities further east. And therefore, cheaper. Weather is one factor, the loss of manufacturing that has hit western and central NY more than eastern NY and New England, more industrial landscape, the ability of the eastern areas to bounce back quicker, proximity to the ocean, etc. there's a palpable difference.
So, why are you on here? I'm not saying that to be rude, but this is the Syracuse forum and it is in the Northeast. Hence, my point in difference in cost in the region. Pittsburgh is in the Interior Northeast and is steadily coming back. Rochester has been a solid area in the Interior Northeast. In spite of imperfections, the Syracuse area added people last decade. Ithaca is arguably the best metro in NY economically and has the highest average annual income for an Upstate NY metro. I believe that Harrisburg and Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton metros have seen some gains, if I'm not mistaken. So, things vary within the Northeast, like it does in the South or any other region.
Also, if the South is cheaper, then what do you about that? Luckily, I know that it varies. So, it is tough to talk about a whole region in general terms.
Again, my point was about similar apartments that could be found up here and that there were similarities in look between the two apartments. Both have shopping close by, golf courses, nice homes, etc. I didn't say that they were the same though, just similar. Census tracts or the maps on this website may give more specific information.
BTW- I don't have a dog or anything in this debate as well.
Last edited by ckhthankgod; 05-14-2013 at 01:00 PM..
So, why are you on here? I'm not saying that to be rude, but this is the Syracuse forum and it is in the Northeast. Hence, my point in difference in cost in the region. Pittsburgh is in the Interior Northeast and is steadily coming back. Rochester has been a solid area in the Interior Northeast. In spite of imperfections, the Syracuse area added people last decade. Ithaca is arguably the best metro in NY economically and has the highest average annual income for an Upstate NY metro. I believe that Harrisburg and Allentown-Bethlehem-Easton metros have seen some gains, if I'm not mistaken. So, things vary within the Northeast, like it does in the South or any other region.
Also, if the South is cheaper, then what do you about that? Luckily, I know that it varies. So, it is tough to talk about a whole region in general terms.
Again, my point was about similar apartments that could be found up here and that there were similarities in look between the two apartments. Both have shopping close by, golf courses, nice homes, etc. I didn't say that they were the same though, just similar.
BTW- I don't have a dog or anything in this debate as well.
I'm not sure why you take what I say and extrapolate something else. "Variation" is an interesting term that you seem to utilize quite often. Its a convenient way to gloss over less desirable areas by saying that "it varies". I'm sure there are neighborhoods in Detroit that "vary" but that doesn't make Detroit a desirable place to live.
If you want to ignore the fact that the types of apartments that most people like I.E. those with nice, new amenities, open floor plans, fireplaces, dog parks, hot tubs, etc. I'm talking resort style apartments, which are the norm in many Southern & Western metros, are uncommon in the Northeast or cost astronomical amounts of money, yet they are common and regular here. If you want to extrapolate that into some lesson about populations in the Northeast stabilizing, feel free.
I already showed an example of an upscale apartment in Troy that was $500 more than a similar apartment in Raleigh. I also showed an upscale apartment in Saratoga Springs that was a whopping $900 more than Raleigh. I stated how that doesn't make sense based on similar salary and its what makes many parts of the Northeast a tougher place to live. Where's the debate in that? I'm truly curious.
I'm not sure why you take what I say and extrapolate something else. "Variation" is an interesting term that you seem to utilize quite often. Its a convenient way to gloss over less desirable areas by saying that "it varies". I'm sure there are neighborhoods in Detroit that "vary" but that doesn't make Detroit a desirable place to live.
If you want to ignore the fact that the types of apartments that most people like I.E. those with nice, new amenities, open floor plans, fireplaces, dog parks, hot tubs, etc. I'm talking resort style apartments, which are the norm in many Southern & Western metros, are uncommon in the Northeast or cost astronomical amounts of money, yet they are common and regular here. If you want to extrapolate that into some lesson about populations in the Northeast stabilizing, feel free.
I already showed an example of an upscale apartment in Troy that was $500 more than a similar apartment in Raleigh. I also showed an upscale apartment in Saratoga Springs that was a whopping $900 more than Raleigh. I stated how that doesn't make sense based on similar salary and its what makes many parts of the Northeast a tougher place to live. Where's the debate in that? I'm truly curious.
Variation is self explanatory. Troy isn't in the Syracuse area. Hence, my reason for posting an example of an apartment you were looking for or posted from Raleigh. Taking emotion out of it and looking price and amenities, it is basically a wash, give or take. So, to say you can't find something similar in this area, let alone the Northeast is false.
Also, Albany has a higher average annual income than Raleigh. So, that may explain the difference and even the choices posted are based off of opinion.
What one desires varies as well, but in this case, it is in regard to price within a region.
BTW- Downtown Detroit is seeing some investment and interest: Move to Detroit
Variation is self explanatory. Troy isn't in the Syracuse area. Hence, my reason for posting an example of an apartment you were looking for or posted from Raleigh. Taking emotion out of it and looking price and amenities, it is basically a wash, give or take. So, to say you can't find something similar in this area, let alone the Northeast is false.
Also, Albany has a higher average annual income than Raleigh. So, that may explain the difference and even the choices posted are based off of opinion.
What one desires varies as well, but in this case, it is in regard to price within a region.
BTW- Downtown Detroit is seeing some investment and interest: Move to Detroit
Per capita, household, by county, by urban area, any way you want it to be true, it just isn't.
Detroit is seeing "investment" because of course there will be some investment in a large major city where you can buy a house for price of an iPod. If houses weren't so bulky to carry, they'd be stolen too. Take a poll to see how many people want to live in Detroit.
If a $500/month difference in an area where the average income is lower is a wash, then I have some laundry for you. $500/month is not a wash to me. Its the cost of a car payment, insurance, cell phone, and utility bill extra, per month. Of course, if you want to put Raleigh apartment costs up against the apartment cost in a small inland city in Upstate NY, might as well throw Altoona in there too. And still the Raleigh place (which is one of 100) was slightly cheaper and way nicer.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
