Florida High Speed Rail (Jacksonville, Miami: neighborhoods, good schools, cost)

[Spring Hillian]

When gas is $8.00 a gallon, I would think those "drive alone" statistics will change significantly.

What do these out dated percentages equate to in real numbers of people?

Sure, Americans have gotten very accustomed to their comfy automobiles and the joys of sitting in traffic while they pollute the air and waste valuable resources. However, if that trend is allowed to continue, the environmental impact is going to be severe, the cost of doing so will become extremely prohibitive, the time expended in traffic will continue to escalate.

It's a no brainer. Mass transit is the answer.

Ever sit on a highway while a commuter train zipped by next to you?
Makes some people think.

This thread was stated about HIGH SPEED RAIL but has seemed to morph into light rail which will eventually support HIGH SPEED RAIL in the cities served by the HIGH SPEED RAIL.

Originally Posted by Kevin from Tampa

OK here are some stats on rail vs car....I will mostly compare the bay area to other cities that it is comparable to in density, etc....

Of people commuting to work (year 2000 data)....

Tampa-79.7% of people drive alone. 12.4% car pool. 1.2 take the bus. 0% use trains (obviously)

Atlanta-77% of peope drive alone. 13.6% car pool. 2.4% take the bus. 1.1% use trains.

Miami-76.6% drive alone. 13.4% car pool. 3.2% take the bus. .5% use trains. (I should add that Miami's rail % declined from 1990-2000)

Dallas-78.8% drive alone. 14% car pool. 1.6% take the bus. .1% use trains.

We're talking an awful lot of money to get 1% or less of people on to trains.

Chapter 4. MEANS OF TRAVEL TO WORK - CTPP - Planning - FHWA

[tjax1000]

Originally Posted by Spring Hillian

Do you feel that way because a lot of the people driving cars have no respect for their fellow humans whether they are fellow motorists or pedestrians?

There is a difference between negotiating an intersection like Dale Mabry & Gandy on foot, vs. walking across 5th Ave in NYC.

Most of our sidewalks are particularly hazardous also because the nature of the way this area has developed means that every 10 feet you have a busy driveway into a strip mall or some other business. Even if every driver is as careful as they can be (which they obviously are not!), this is still not the ideal place for pedestrians or cyclists.

OTOH, an area like Downtown St. Pete is pretty walkable and you could probably find most everything you needed with a decent walk. If you worked downtown you could get by w/o a car. As fed up with the suburbs as so many people appear to be, I am surprised that more people haven't flocked to downtown areas like this. I guess at the end of the day people don't hate the suburbs so much after all. (For me, I'll be happy never to eat at another Applebees for as long as I live!)

[ferret111]

Originally Posted by tjax1000

I am surprised that more people haven't flocked to downtown areas like this. I guess at the end of the day people don't hate the suburbs so much after all. (For me, I'll be happy never to eat at another Applebees for as long as I live!)

I think there are two major reasons why people still avoid downtown areas:

1) The idea that downtown cores have high crime and all of its side effects.
2) People seem to freak out about having to park maybe a block or two or three away from their desired destination. Seems irrational, but whatever.

But to remain on topic, I do believe in mass transit. It's a shame the Hillsborough tax was voted down. They should hide a transit tax in the next stadium renovation tax legislation.

[craigm1841]

Originally Posted by ferret111

I think there are two major reasons why people still avoid downtown areas:

1) The idea that downtown cores have high crime and all of its side effects.
2) People seem to freak out about having to park maybe a block or two or three away from their desired destination. Seems irrational, but whatever.

But to remain on topic, I do believe in mass transit. It's a shame the Hillsborough tax was voted down. They should hide a transit tax in the next stadium renovation tax legislation.

haha- the stadium tax is a whole other issue which irks me bigtime. Public funding of a stadium that houses a team that is privately owned. The tax payers funded a large part of Raymond James Stadium but cannot afford to go to games because the outrageous cost of tickets controlled by the assbag family that owns the team.

[TB Fla]

Well according to the Tampa Trib, it seems there is a possibility that Tampa may not get High speed rail at all now because it wont have the light rail to connect to. Mean while, in Orlando, they are on their way to getting high speed and light rail. Their economy will blossom after that, while Tampa's will continue to get worse. New buisnesses coming to Florida will skip Tampa and opt for Orlando instead. People of Hillsborough might save a little money now, but we will all pay for it later. Our dangerous roads will get worse, more traffic, and faster deterioration, our insurance will go up, air pollution will get worse. We are on our way to becoming the Detroit of Florida, and Orlando will surpass us in every way. Not to mention all of the construction jobs that we just voted down the toilet.

[craigm1841]

^^people would rather save a penny on the dollar. one-one hundredth a dollar is really insignificant, but people are dumb. What can you do? We already dont have a state income tax, what more do you people want?

Like ferret mentioned. they'll vote for a tax increase to build a new stadium... that maybe 30,000 people use 8 times a year AND pay an arm and a leg to do it.

[gypsychic]

Originally Posted by TB Fla

Well according to the Tampa Trib, it seems there is a possibility that Tampa may not get High speed rail at all now because it wont have the light rail to connect to. Mean while, in Orlando, they are on there way to getting high speed and light rail. There economy will blossom after that, while Tampa's will continue to get worse. New buisnesses coming to Florida will skip Tampa and opt for Orlando instead. People of Hillsborough might save a little money now, but we will all pay for it later. Our dangerous roads will get worse, more traffic, and faster deterioration, our insurance will go up, air pollution will get worse. We are on our way to becoming the Detroit of Florida, and Orlando will surpass us in every way. Not to mention all of the construction jobs that we just voted down the toilet.

I agree - I'm pretty down on Tampa right now. My husband works downtown, but has no desire to live there, nor do I. That's why we are in Sarasota. I just can't believe the stupidity. In my husband's job there (government) he has to deal with it every day.

[tamparesident26]

Originally Posted by craigm1841

haha- the stadium tax is a whole other issue which irks me bigtime. Public funding of a stadium that houses a team that is privately owned. The tax payers funded a large part of Raymond James Stadium but cannot afford to go to games because the outrageous cost of tickets controlled by the assbag family that owns the team.

The stadium tax annoys me daily on a regular basis as well. Probably because the Glazers are parasite cheapskates who haven't done a thing for this community to deserve the amount of money that has been spent building their precious stadium. People were persuaded to vote for that because they bundled it cleverly with other things. And yes, the Glazers just built the Children's Museum downtown, I'm aware. They were ONE of larger donors, yes, but they were just one of many. If the museum were free to citizens, then I might have a different opinion. But it's not. (I don't expect it to be free, let me just make that clear. That isn't the point.) They are still making money on it and plenty of it, so it's not exactly a "gift" to the city if you catch my drift. (I was approached a couple of years ago when the museum was in the planning stage to donate some services. I'm all for pro bono work and do it frequently, but what they were wanting raised my eyebrows enough to decline. Anyone I have told the particulars to has agreed that I was 100% correct in saying NO.)


Getting back to the point, the problem is - the stadium tax was approved by voters in 1997. Things were way different economically here then. Yes, the "new" stadium has brought us two Superbowls played here since, right right. That's great and I'm all for the tourist dollars that it generated. That doesn't change the fact that I think it's pretty nervy for them to make it so out of reach for some people to go to games who might wish to when we pretty much footed the bill for their venue.

Even with that taken into consideration, it still baffles the mind that people would vote yes for that but not for a project that would have a far more positive impact to the area than a football stadium.

I think the Glazers should buy us a train. Fair trade?

[craigm1841]

Originally Posted by tamparesident26

I think the Glazers should buy us a train. Fair trade?

A movement has begun...

[tamparesident26]

Originally Posted by TB Fla

Well according to the Tampa Trib, it seems there is a possibility that Tampa may not get High speed rail at all now because it wont have the light rail to connect to. Mean while, in Orlando, they are on their way to getting high speed and light rail. Their economy will blossom after that, while Tampa's will continue to get worse. New buisnesses coming to Florida will skip Tampa and opt for Orlando instead. People of Hillsborough might save a little money now, but we will all pay for it later. Our dangerous roads will get worse, more traffic, and faster deterioration, our insurance will go up, air pollution will get worse. We are on our way to becoming the Detroit of Florida, and Orlando will surpass us in every way. Not to mention all of the construction jobs that we just voted down the toilet.

Couldn't agree more. But...this will be on the ballot again. I'm sure of it.