I am not a fan of Rick Scott, but he was right on the bullet train

[chi_tino]

Originally Posted by Crane's Rooster

But for tourists visiting the Orlando theme parks it would encourage them to go visit Tampa Bay if they could jump on the train and get there without driving (and vice versa).

Yeah, that's exactly what a family carting around children and luggage wants to do -- block out three or more hours to take a shuttle bus or taxi to an Orlando train station, pack on all the luggage and kids, get to somewhere in Tampa Bay, unload the luggage and kids, get into another shuttle bus or taxi with luggage and kids, get carted around until you get to your destination, then be stranded there without a car until you return to Orlando and get to do the whole thing in reverse.

Great idea -- do you work for the government?

[Crane's Rooster]

Far from it. I just would have liked to see our region lead the nation rather than play catch up. I really felt this was an opportunity for the I-4 corridor to take the lead and create a new trend. I personally think people are really discounting the impact this project could have had. Disney donated its own land to have it's own station on the system. With a major player like Disney on board, you don't think they saw an economic benefit to this? I'm fairly certain Disney would have made it easy enough for families to get to and from their resorts to the stations. And yes, I do believe European and foreign travelers would not have minded traveling by train to Tampa Bay. But alas, it's all a theoretic debate now. I"m happy we got Sunrail here in Orlando and await the benefits it will bring to our community. I can see now why HSR was rejected.

[Kevin from Tampa]

Originally Posted by BBI

100% agreed. That's why the proposed Tampa to Orlando line made no sense. It would have been no faster than and (considering the local public transportation options) less convenient than driving.

That said, I don't think the answer is to make it more expensive and less convenient to drive. Rather, we should target mass transit where it would be effective. For example, light/commuter rail in the bay area would be faster and more convenient than driving in many instances.

This is pretty much what I was saying during the while HSR debate on this forum. An MSR line made zero sense from TPA-ORL for the reasons stated above, and also because there is no light rail in either city. You can't put the cart before the horse.

[Kevin from Tampa]

Originally Posted by Crane's Rooster

Far from it. I just would have liked to see our region lead the nation rather than play catch up. I really felt this was an opportunity for the I-4 corridor to take the lead and create a new trend. I personally think people are really discounting the impact this project could have had. Disney donated its own land to have it's own station on the system. With a major player like Disney on board, you don't think they saw an economic benefit to this? I'm fairly certain Disney would have made it easy enough for families to get to and from their resorts to the stations. And yes, I do believe European and foreign travelers would not have minded traveling by train to Tampa Bay. But alas, it's all a theoretic debate now. I"m happy we got Sunrail here in Orlando and await the benefits it will bring to our community. I can see now why HSR was rejected.

As I pointed during this debate....there is already a train that runs b/t TPA-ORL, operated by Amtrak, and the time it takes this train to make its trip was like....8-20 minutes longer than the HSR would have taken.

That HSR line was a bad idea and it's good that the taxpayers will not be stuck with what have been a white elephant.

[GoRays813]

[quote=BBMW;21616123]It's even bigger than that. I live in NYC, so I know mass transit.

For mass transit to work, the area has to grow up around it. When the first subways were built, there were still farms in upper Manhattan, and there were already existing rail lines. So the city filled in around the rail.
quote]

Agreed. If local transit is to be implemented correctly, these small and growing towns need to identify it as a necessity before they become too reliant on automobiles. That's exactly why NY, Chicago, DC, etc. works- because it was something that the local planners identified from the beginning. Trying to establish it as an overlay to the existing infrastructure is very difficult because it stresses everything. Can it be done effectively? Maybe; but it is best to identify it early on in city's development. At Tampa's size and projected growth, we're reaching the tipping point where it is no longer a valid discussion (although some would suggest we're already past that point)

[Not_liking_FL]

Originally Posted by Crane's Rooster

This is all assuming that these needed amenities would not have sprung up after the approval of HSR. It's not accurate to characterize the project as the entire scope of the project when it was rejected. It's quite likely that upon approval, many public and private sector projects would have sprung up to compliment the rail and get people to their final destination. For example, had HSR been approved I'm sure they're would have been many private transport companies who would have to tried to profit on ways to get visitors to Tampa Bay from the station to the Airport, Beaches, Stadium, Hotel or whatever their final destination would have been. Where there's a demand and a dollar to be made, someone will always jump in to fill that gap.

Again, AFTER Sunrail was approved 2 additional lines were almost immediately proposed by other municipalities who agreed to contribute money for their own stops on the additional lines. 3 cities came together to propose an express bus system that would get riders from their the stations to the major job, shopping, school and retail centers in those cities. And just recently, a private company has explored building a mag lev train from Orlando International Airport to connect with Sunrail and than head to the Convention Center all with private funds. This is on top of the mini villages being built around the stations. What's to say this type of public/private investment, or probably even greater, would not have followed the approval of HSR? My point is it was rejected too prematurely. We should have explored the cost more in depth and also explored the realistic prospect of complimentary projects to the HSR before just rejecting the money. As stated, most of the private developers waited in AFTER final approval of Sunrail to make the announcement of all these projects. However, they stated with no uncertainty that the projects were directly tied the approval of Sunrail. We can now only imagine and speculate on how many projects HSR would have created.

I also think services would have "sprung up" to get people to their final destination.

Rick Scott rejected HSR before giving the project enough review. From this article it looks like he only went by a report from the Reason Foundation. A libertarian think tank.

PolitiFact Florida | Gov. Rick Scott says rail would have cost state taxpayers $1 billion to build

The HSR between Tampa and Orlando and then Miami was just the beginning. If all the other HSR projects around the country are eventually completed it looks like they will stop at the Florida border.