ANOTHER homeowner's insurance thread... (new home, buying, contractors)

[Pragmaticus]

I just received a renewal notice over the weekend and my premium just went up by 40% from last year, no claim and no change in coverage. It seems they don't want me. Tomorrow, off I go searching for another one I guess....

So, you better over estimate than under. $1500 looks too small for the house of your parameters.

[druthb00]

Just an update for anyone curious or in the same boat I am:

I've gotten several quotes for different companies, Citizens, FrontLine, and Tower Hill. Citizens is the cheapest, of course not covering the screen enclosure and a liability limit of only $100,000. I think the cheapest rate was $1900 for the year through them.

Tower Hill ranged from $2700 through one agent to $5800 through another...and the differences are not that great. The $5800 doesn't include the screen enclosure while the cheaper policy does...go figure

FrontLine is anywhere from $2200-$2800 depending on if we want to cover the enclosure and ultimately what discounts the Wind Mit report gives us. I'm still inquiring about a higher deductible, so we'll see what happens.

With everything I've heard about Citizens, it seems like we'd be smart to go with another reasonably priced company if they'll take us. I'm assuming Citizens would be a nightmare if the area got hit with a decent sized storm. Anyone disagree?

Edit: I guess I should have mentioned we're currently in the process of purchasing a particular property as opposed to just looking like when I started the thread. The home falls in the parameters I mentioned in my first post, and the roof is shingle not tile.

[Spring Hillian]

Sounds like a plan there. Over time you can replace windows to hurricane rated windows, get a little guy to get into your attic with dozens of "hurricane clips" and screws to tie all the joints together, replace the garage door or at least reinforce it, add an alarm system. All these things will make your house better to live in and also reduce your insurance costs due to your steps to do the mitigation.

Originally Posted by druthb00

Thanks everyone so far. I guess I'll have to contact a couple of agents this week to get an idea of what we're looking at. This is the website I've seen in the past that had me thinking maybe our premium wouldn't be too ridiculous: CHOICES - $150,000 Value - Pre-2001 Construction, it's amazing how different the rates are with "max. wind mitigation."

I know there are plenty of variables not factored into the example, but we plan on keeping deductibles relatively high and maximizing wind mitigation where reasonably possible (obviously down the road, not immediately.) I'm hoping staying in a non-flood zone and sticking with block construction will make a big difference.

[thession]

Stick with Citizens...A Florida taxpayer owned company. If the big one hits, taxpayers are on the hook anyway. No insurance co will have the money to cover a disaster. Make sure your home inspector includes the windmit and roof cert. Hip roofs and roof to wall attachments are your biggest credits. Roof coverings if permitted 2008 or later will add extra credit, impact windows or impact rated shutters are next. Sounds like your purchasing a newer home since that quote seems low, unless they have included the discounts.

[druthb00]

Originally Posted by Spring Hillian

Sounds like a plan there. Over time you can replace windows to hurricane rated windows, get a little guy to get into your attic with dozens of "hurricane clips" and screws to tie all the joints together, replace the garage door or at least reinforce it, add an alarm system. All these things will make your house better to live in and also reduce your insurance costs due to your steps to do the mitigation.

That's exactly what I'm thinking All of those things need to be done, too, because we don't have hurricane clips and the garage door could use to be replaced as could the windows in the next few years. So by the time we need a new Wind Mit report thing done, maybe we can have those issues fixed.

[thession]

Originally Posted by Spring Hillian

Sounds like a plan there. Over time you can replace windows to hurricane rated windows, get a little guy to get into your attic with dozens of "hurricane clips" and screws to tie all the joints together, replace the garage door or at least reinforce it, add an alarm system. All these things will make your house better to live in and also reduce your insurance costs due to your steps to do the mitigation.

Easier to remove the soffit and use a palm nailer Or when the roof needs replacement to do it then. New permitted roof with clips = 800 to 900.00 a year in savings

[chi_tino]

Originally Posted by druthb00

With everything I've heard about Citizens, it seems like we'd be smart to go with another reasonably priced company if they'll take us. I'm assuming Citizens would be a nightmare if the area got hit with a decent sized storm. Anyone disagree?

I disagree 100%. Citizens is guaranteed to pay out claims, because they are backed by all other policyholders in the state (including non-Citizens policyholders) and the full authority of the State of Florida, which incidentally has one of the highest debt ratings of all the states. I don't mind paying a premium surcharge if there is a monster storm. I do mind if companies do not have the ability to pay out claims.

These fly-by-night companies trying to pick up Citizens policies are either poorly- or un-rated entities that will declare bankruptcy as soon as the big one hits, and then your claim will be settled years later for pennies on the dollar.

From a Q&A in the TBT:
"there are concerns about how the companies would fare handling claims after a large storm. Most of the companies are relatively young and have not faced a major hurricane. Another ratings agency, Weiss Ratings, gives four of the five poor ratings and did not rate the fifth because it is too new."

A Q&A for Citizens Property policyholders wondering: Should I stay or should I go? - Tampa Bay Times

[thession]

Originally Posted by chi_tino

I disagree 100%. Citizens is guaranteed to pay out claims, because they are backed by all other policyholders in the state (including non-Citizens policyholders) and the full authority of the State of Florida, which incidentally has one of the highest debt ratings of all the states. I don't mind paying a premium surcharge if there is a monster storm. I do mind if companies do not have the ability to pay out claims.

These fly-by-night companies trying to pick up Citizens policies are either poorly- or un-rated entities that will declare bankruptcy as soon as the big one hits, and then your claim will be settled years later for pennies on the dollar.

From a Q&A in the TBT:
"there are concerns about how the companies would fare handling claims after a large storm. Most of the companies are relatively young and have not faced a major hurricane. Another ratings agency, Weiss Ratings, gives four of the five poor ratings and did not rate the fifth because it is too new."

A Q&A for Citizens Property policyholders wondering: Should I stay or should I go? - Tampa Bay Times

Great post...Now if we can keep the politicians fingers out of the kitty....

3 Reasons Florida's Citizens Loan Plan Is Bad Idea

[druthb00]

Originally Posted by chi_tino

I disagree 100%. Citizens is guaranteed to pay out claims, because they are backed by all other policyholders in the state (including non-Citizens policyholders) and the full authority of the State of Florida, which incidentally has one of the highest debt ratings of all the states. I don't mind paying a premium surcharge if there is a monster storm. I do mind if companies do not have the ability to pay out claims.

These fly-by-night companies trying to pick up Citizens policies are either poorly- or un-rated entities that will declare bankruptcy as soon as the big one hits, and then your claim will be settled years later for pennies on the dollar.

From a Q&A in the TBT:
"there are concerns about how the companies would fare handling claims after a large storm. Most of the companies are relatively young and have not faced a major hurricane. Another ratings agency, Weiss Ratings, gives four of the five poor ratings and did not rate the fifth because it is too new."

A Q&A for Citizens Property policyholders wondering: Should I stay or should I go? - Tampa Bay Times

Thank you for your input. I'd have to question the companies selected to take over some of the Citizens policies as well, but the companies I'm considering have been around since before the last major storm. FrontLine was licensed in FL in 1998 and Tower Hill in 1997; and for anyone who's interested, this is the website where you can look up any insurance company that's licensed in the state: http://www.floir.com/companysearch/index.aspx. Both companies have an "A" financial rating through Demotech (<< is this reputable? The website seems legitimate-enough, but I've never heard of it) as recently as August of this year.

That's a pretty hefty premium (up to 45%) to pay if we do get slammed, though. Not to mention, it won't be until after that premium hits 45% that everyone who doesn't have Citizens will be assessed.

Regardless, I see your point and we haven't taken out a policy as of now so I'm open to opinions/suggestions/etc.

[chi_tino]

I insure monstrous costs (home, health) because the potential loss is a large percentage of my net worth. I only insure my car because I'm required to by law. All other "insurance" offers (home appliances, pet health, utility repairs, cell phone, etc) are essentially sucker's bets because the payout is capped at a very low level and the premium is way too high in relation to the tiny amount of coverage.

That said, any time I insure I will gladly pay to be convinced that the claim will actually be reimbursed. If my house is gone or I get cancer, I don't want shenanigans. I want to be fully compensated for the costs. If the goal is to save money, I can do that by choosing a high deductible, not by switching to a lower-rated insurer. My Citizens policy dropped almost 25% this year because my sinkhole odds are zero. Sinkhole-prone area premiums are finally starting to move toward reality.

Unfortunately,
1. Citizens policy prices are set by political will, not by any economic or actuarial means.
2. Citizens should be charging a premium, rather than a discount, compared to private insurers, because their policies are ultimately backed by the State.
3. If they were to charge "correct" prices for homeowners in sinkhole-prone areas, the prices would be obscene.
4. At these "correct" prices, private insurers would definitely enter the marketplace. They currently do not because the prices are being held artificially low.

Why don't they charge "correct" prices? See #1.