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Old 11-05-2012, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 14,097,869 times
Reputation: 6028

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You must understand the dumpster diving situation. Gourmet markets were tossing their goods into dumpsters due to lack of power (refrigeration). Top quality stuff. That is why they were dumpster diving.

Have you ever been to the Rockaway Penninsula? You would have to think twice about living on that spit of land. You have the Atlantic Ocean on one side and a large bay on the other. A good storm could easily wash over the entire place and then the only thing left would be the elevated subway and the housing projects on the East side of the island.




Quote:
Originally Posted by BucFan View Post
Gas on hand is important, but you worry about fire hazard of having it.

My main concern what the big picture - if our politicians were ready with resources and a plan.

Guess they do. I'm going to hate seeing all the despair coming from our area when it happens (big storm). It really is an embarrassment to NY/NJ when the media shows the population "dumpster diving" (heard that word on Fox probably 20-30 times) and begging for help.

Hope our gov't/resources are proactive when **** hits the fan here in our area.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:17 AM
 
5,453 posts, read 8,220,235 times
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I didn't get why to buy "lots of booze" though!? what is that going to do? besides having drunk people walking around...definitely don't think I'd want to be around that...water is what you want in large quantities, because your water may become CONTAMINATED...and then you're really in trouble!
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:20 AM
 
5,453 posts, read 8,220,235 times
Reputation: 2141
Again, you the homeowner take responsibility for your fuel, and how its stored.

The worst part about the dumpster diving is not only the really bad image that it gives such an impressive city (on the outside), but the waste....if these grocers would haven taken this storm seriously this amount of food would have been used for those who lost everything, and not thrown out.
Its almost like a slap in the face to those who legitimately lost all of their stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucFan View Post
Gas on hand is important, but you worry about fire hazard of having it.

My main concern what the big picture - if our politicians were ready with resources and a plan.

Guess they do. I'm going to hate seeing all the despair coming from our area when it happens (big storm). It really is an embarrassment to NY/NJ when the media shows the population "dumpster diving" (heard that word on Fox probably 20-30 times) and begging for help.

Hope our gov't/resources are proactive when **** hits the fan here in our area.
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:56 AM
 
35,319 posts, read 44,864,973 times
Reputation: 30810
You get hungry enough i'll guarantee the ability to dumpster dive for high quality food would be considered a luxury.
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 14,097,869 times
Reputation: 6028
You identified the main issue. IF those people would have taken it seriously....

Being a ex-NYker there is no way people there would be prepared for a storm of this magnitude.
Millions live in apartment houses. Regardless, the flood waters are what did the damage and the area was never built on the suspicion of such a flood surge as what occurred last week.

Sandy was a 1st for modern day East Coast USA. The storm came darn close, but not directly over, the most densely populated areas. It came in well south of the NYC metropolitan area. Imagine if it did actually center itself 100 miles north.

Being a ex-NYker there is no way people there would be prepared for a storm of this magnitude.
Millions live in apartment houses. Millions live in homes built of frame and plywood. There are, thankfully, a lot of brick built homes as well. Regardless, the flood waters are what did the damage and the area was never built on the suspicion of such a flood surge as what occurred last week.

I guarantee you, they will be better prepared next time.

Good wake up call to us Floridians who blow off hurricane preparedness.




Quote:
Originally Posted by algia View Post
Again, you the homeowner take responsibility for your fuel, and how its stored.

The worst part about the dumpster diving is not only the really bad image that it gives such an impressive city (on the outside), but the waste....if these grocers would haven taken this storm seriously this amount of food would have been used for those who lost everything, and not thrown out.
Its almost like a slap in the face to those who legitimately lost all of their stuff.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
27,798 posts, read 28,086,676 times
Reputation: 14611
Since there is a poor lack of community here in the TB area where people don't even know their neighbor, where the number of transplants for other states is very high, I'd expect that it will be a case of everyman (or woman) for themselves when we get the hit.

I'd think that our area will have much more looting/theft, price gouging, and all the bad stuff that comes with the chaos after the storm.

Definitely want to get the heck out of Dodge if possible.
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Old 11-05-2012, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
693 posts, read 1,012,747 times
Reputation: 611
Quote:
Originally Posted by BucFan View Post
Since there is a poor lack of community here in the TB area where people don't even know their neighbor, where the number of transplants for other states is very high, I'd expect that it will be a case of everyman (or woman) for themselves when we get the hit.

I'd think that our area will have much more looting/theft, price gouging, and all the bad stuff that comes with the chaos after the storm.

Definitely want to get the heck out of Dodge if possible.
I think most people rise to the occasion. There is a poor lack of community because people are busy as hell with work and family. Given a situation such as a major storm that does catastrophic damages to a community / region, people tend to self identify with those around them and bond together for the greater good.

If I was ordered to evacuate I would without question but would also want to return as fast as possible.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:12 PM
 
6,441 posts, read 4,664,924 times
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When Andrew hit in the 90's, I was volunteering with Red Cross in Dallas. During a meeting, we were told that the looting and much worse had changed Red Cross plans about identifying themselves or ever being alone when helping at a disaster site. One Red Cross volunteer was robbed and raped. She was so concerned about the devastation and so many people in need, she wanted to stay and help instead of going home. She was robbed and raped again.

Until that time, any Red Cross employee/volunteer wore a badge, maybe a vest and put the magnetic thing on rental cars. They were easy to spot and the only ones carrying cash. Since then they were supposed to keep a low profile and stay with one or more companions at all times.

You're right, BucFan. Each of us needs to be prepared to survive and protect ourselves. And that reminds me that I need to find the nearest target range and practice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BucFan View Post
Since there is a poor lack of community here in the TB area where people don't even know their neighbor, where the number of transplants for other states is very high, I'd expect that it will be a case of everyman (or woman) for themselves when we get the hit.

I'd think that our area will have much more looting/theft, price gouging, and all the bad stuff that comes with the chaos after the storm.

Definitely want to get the heck out of Dodge if possible.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 14,097,869 times
Reputation: 6028
algia;26796035]Not much I am afraid except that:

1. Mayor Bloomberg was warned back in September that something like this would happen, and he did NOTHING.


The storm did not exist in September. Enlighten us. What would you have done that Bloomberg did not?


2. That IF you have enough money to buy a house, then you have enough money to buy a generator

In the metro NYC area, power outages are rare.



3. If you have more than a week in advance to prepare, unlike in an earthquake scenario where you have NO TIME to prepare, and you don't get out, then don't be surprised at what happens.

Nobody had a week. It was a couple of days. but I agree, if you dont prepare and dont get out, its your problem.


4. FEMA should ONLY be concerned with the elderly, the sick, and welfare folks that don't have enough money to book a room somewhere else. When they evacuate, FEMA should already BE THERE to support this category. For everyone else, there really is NO EXCUSE not to get out when told, because now these people are endangering police officers, firemen etc because of their own stubbornness, and IGNORANCE towards mother nature. I have a very hard time feeling bad for those who could get out but chose not too.

FEMA is a U.S. Government agency which serves ALL Americans.


5. The destruction of material items does not come as a surprise. NYC, and the "Up north" in general is made up of VERY OLD, 100+ year old buildings...what do you expect? nothing was ever updated to withstand such a storm. They don't have palm trees there that sway, they have 100 year old trees that are not meant to support hurricane force winds. They build a skyscraper here and one there, but show no concern for an 108 year old subway system, and all other basements.

The only 100 year old + building I saw in trouble was where the facade fell off an old Chelsea building.


6. NYU was warned years ago that they need to move their animals out of their basements and did nothing, and now they have YEARS, and YEARS worth of research LOST, that they have to start all over again; cancer research etc. Ton of money lost there.

Nobody would have figured on flooding in that area.


7. The lesson to be learned is NOT TO RELY ON FEMA. And not because they can't support, but because it is YOUR responsibility to get out, and prepare, especially when you KNOW you're not in Florida that's used to such storm, and you know your house is 100 years old. It is NOT FEMA's fault people are completely and utterly complacent and ignorant. There was so much warning of this storm that nobody can say: "Ohh I didn't know"!

I agree.


8. That is it INEXCUSABLE for a HOSPITAL to NOT PREPARE, in the case of one that had to transfer those NICU babies! It is inexcusable that they did not evacuate BEFORE the storm hit. Everyone who did not take the storm seriously is an ignorant, and I have no sympathy.

I am sure the hospitals were prepared. The event you refer to was a failure of back up power.


9. This gas shortage I have an even bigger problem with...there is enough gas in this country to supply us for a while, yet these folks did not prepare for emergencies. They had WEEKS advance notice. This didn't just happen like an earthquake.


I dont know where you get your informaiton that there was "WEEKS" of advance notice on this storm.
But that is not close to being factual.





10. People need to take responsibility not only for themselves, and for emergency personnel, but also for their pets! If you have a pet, its like you child, you are responsible for that pour soul. FEMA is going to rescue people, not pets. Be mindful of that.

I agree.



This dependence on the Gov to jump and help when NATURE strikes is ridiculous. Home Depot, Lowes, and other stores provide tons of things for you to prepare with, it is not Gov's problem. Gov should be helping ONLY those who are not physically able to help themselves anymore, and those who have NO MONEY to buy supplies, or relocate temporarily.

This is the United States. We do not treat our citizens that way. We are all Americans and entitled to the assistance the government provides us.


I think the major thing that people need to understand is that they need to take personal responsibility for themselves, their pets, and whatever belongings they have, and not expect to NOT evacuate, and then endanger emergency personnel because they feel like it. You don't have a right to do

I agree. Take personal responsibility, but you do not understand the average homeowner in the NY metro area. Those are their HOMES. Their LIVES. Most of those people were living there a long time and their families lived there too and still do in many many cases. There is a stronger sense of community in the metro NY area neighborhoods than you could possibily imagine. Sure, things got off to a slow start for recovery, but everyone, everything was in some way affected by storm which the likes of have not been felt in many many years.

Overall, I think everyone did a great job getting NYC and the metro area going in the right direction.
Recovery.
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:57 PM
 
Location: South Tampa, Maui, Paris
3,256 posts, read 2,278,265 times
Reputation: 3127
These people should never have built what they have built the way they built it. Most of the areas wiped out or damaged Sandy surge are FEMA special designated Flood Zones A or AE. Why should NJ and NY get a pass for ignoring flood zoning?

"Nobody would have figured on flooding in that area."-- Spring Hillian

Um, really? Why? Because Mother Nature has a special interest in protecting the NYSE?

Those areas are HIGH risk flood zones per FEMA, just like New Orleans or Miami Beach or Cape Hatteras. Ignore the flood maps at your peril, that's the lesson from Sandy.

Same thing will happen to Miami Beach and other areas built up when it's only a matter of time before 20 foot storm surge takes it out. Same goes for St. Pete, etc.
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