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If you don't like it why don't you do as your name says and move to Sarasota. We all know there are enough of your kind holding this city back. I could actually start to like this place if there were less of you.
Hugs to you too. Dont take it personal. Refute my argument, i can back up my statements. If you can prove me wrong, i will change my mind.
Judging from your comments, very unlikely. Addicts also blame their victims for not allowing them to get just enouh to feel good.
Give us an idea where the money comes from if tax revenues dont make a dent on the budget. Where does tne treasury get it from?
Not sure about you, but i sure know.
So let me get this straight...correct me if I'm wrong on anything here.
You don't want the government to hand the city money
You and 99.99% of Tampa don't want to be taxed for it.
I'm having a difficult time figuring out what you want to have happen. Either:
1) No improvements whatsoever on Tampa
2) Private investors swoop down and invest millions and millions of dollars on everything.
3) Only improve things in the area that you want improved.
#1 will ensure that Tampa looks like Libya in a few years
#2 trusting these guys to control your city's future is like playing with fire
#3 is selfish and unproductive and why this city is only ~10% different from what it was back in the 70's.
Last edited by tampagator89; 12-15-2012 at 12:34 AM..
I dont know, the roads in south tampa? The flooding issues in south tampa? Build a nice park (a REAL park, like they have in other states that families actually go to).
I dont really care, I dont live in the city and probably never will but I just dont understand why we keep making the garbage areas of town nicer. They dont even take care of the stuff in their homes, they surely wont ever take care of the stuff that ISNT in their homes.
LOL. Seriously?
You know Town n Country used to be nice? And now it's seedy. You know Ybor was nice at one point? Now it's seedy. Areas near Busch Gardens used to look better, but now they're seedy. So let's forget those areas, right? Just spend all the money on building a $2 million house next to a $1.5 million house to increase property values in South Tampa, because who knows, if we build enough nice things in an already nice area, it might spread outwards and magically envelop all of the seedy areas and change them into posh South Tampa seedlings...right?
So what's going to happen when Westchase is ghetto in 20 years? Or New Tampa? Or Brandon? You think they're going to stay nice forever? Maybe one or two will, but seediness has its way of creeping into areas that get old. And building new subdivisions further and further out until you meet up with Orlando isn't going to work.
When will people get it, downtown isn't ghetto. It's on the fringe area between nice (South Tampa) and seedy (Ybor, Uptown). It's a safe area that has terrible amenities and looks ugly. If you're ever going to improve somewhere in a city, this is as good an area as any you'll ever find.
"Nice park" is Curtis Hixon, maybe visit sometime? If you don't like that park then I don't know what to tell you.
I think it is useless to argue. I thought I would ignore but here I am.....
I asked for a better idea and some one suggested a park. Really? How many parks do we have around? We apparently need more of them. And he said I won't be living there anyways, ahhh, "I".
Some one said put it in something that creat job growth. What exactly is the one doing now? Do you buy a "job growth" lab or something? I thought this creats job.
Now another right wing comes in and attack how the money was created and teaching us how it was created from thin air and how this is creating deficit. Wrong thread for deficit discussion!
No matter what you do, there come a bunch of them telling us it is a waste and then they ask for less corporate tax. If you get less tax from companies and attack any help from the fed because it adds to deficit, where is the money supposed to come, do we pull it from your ?, Lol .
Last edited by Pragmaticus; 12-15-2012 at 06:21 AM..
So let me get this straight...correct me if I'm wrong on anything here.
You don't want the government to hand the city money
You and 99.99% of Tampa don't want to be taxed for it.
I'm having a difficult time figuring out what you want to have happen. Either:
1) No improvements whatsoever on Tampa
2) Private investors swoop down and invest millions and millions of dollars on everything.
3) Only improve things in the area that you want improved.
#1 will ensure that Tampa looks like Libya in a few years
#2 trusting these guys to control your city's future is like playing with fire
#3 is selfish and unproductive and why this city is only ~10% different from what it was back in the 70's.
No, i want Tampa to improve and to get much better, but there are more efficient ways to do it. You mention tax above, but these 30 million are not from taxes.
Good that you mention taxes, let the city, the state, the fed propose a tax increase. This will give tax payers, like me and best of all you, the ability to decide whether you want Tampa improved or not. And honestly, i'd vote for the tax increase because i want all cities to become better.
However, from a process/dialog like above, i am 100% confident that wasteful proposals would not pass. Look at my response above, solar panels? Job training?
Spending on solar panel is basically making a friend rich, how does buying the panel improve your position as an energy innovator? It doesnt. How does training people help tampa if there are no jobs for them when they finish training? It doesnt.
When a government runs deficits, it is bypassing the tax dialog, it is taxing by force and creates destruction of capital such as what i mentioned above. If you end up being the company selling or training, you are well off, the society around you, not do much.
And before you say i dont have solutions, how about using the funds to incentivice top energy and automation research students/teachers to go to your schools. It shouldn't only be the 30 million, it should be the focus going forward.
In a nutshell, the money will make a few people wealthier and leave tampa looking pretty much the same, while next generation growth engines, energy, autiomation, stay away. It is always the people's call but this is my opinion.
I think it is useless to argue. I thought I would ignore but her I am.....
I asked for a better idea and some one suggested a park. Really? How many parks do we have around? We apparently need more of them. And he said I won't be living there anyways, ahhh, "I".
Some one said put it in something that creat job growth. What exactly is the one doing now? Do you buy a "job growth" lab or something? I thought this creats job.
Now another right wing comes in and attack how the money was created and teaching us how it was created from thin air and how this is creating deficit. Wrong thread for deficit discussion!
No matter what you do, there come a bunch of them telling us it is a waste and then they ask for less corporate tax. If you get less tax from companies and attack any help from the fed because it adds to deficit, where is the money supposed to come, do we pull it from your ?, Lol .
Sorry my friend, but how does 30 million help anything if the same 30 million are also taken away? This means that although a few wealthy people will benefit greatly from the 30 million, while tampa improves a bit, every single tax payer is a little poorer.
As i said above, i'm not against raising taxes, i'm agaisnt deficits because they destroy capital. There is little control over how much and where funds are spent and as a result, capital flows to places like solar pannels and job training when maybe this is not the most efficient way to spend the funds. We live in a democratic society, yet dont decide how these funds are allocated. I'm not the one proposing dictator-like ideas....
There is no 'help' from the fed, we have tokens, the more tokens the fed creates the less valuable the existing tokens become. It's a tax but citizens, in a democratic society, dont have control over it.
Lastly, i am not right wing, not a democrat nor republican, i am a concerned american citizen.
Last edited by SarasotaBound1; 12-15-2012 at 06:43 AM..
You know Town n Country used to be nice? And now it's seedy. You know Ybor was nice at one point? Now it's seedy. Areas near Busch Gardens used to look better, but now they're seedy. So let's forget those areas, right? Just spend all the money on building a $2 million house next to a $1.5 million house to increase property values in South Tampa, because who knows, if we build enough nice things in an already nice area, it might spread outwards and magically envelop all of the seedy areas and change them into posh South Tampa seedlings...right?
So what's going to happen when Westchase is ghetto in 20 years? Or New Tampa? Or Brandon? You think they're going to stay nice forever? Maybe one or two will, but seediness has its way of creeping into areas that get old. And building new subdivisions further and further out until you meet up with Orlando isn't going to work.
When will people get it, downtown isn't ghetto. It's on the fringe area between nice (South Tampa) and seedy (Ybor, Uptown). It's a safe area that has terrible amenities and looks ugly. If you're ever going to improve somewhere in a city, this is as good an area as any you'll ever find.
"Nice park" is Curtis Hixon, maybe visit sometime? If you don't like that park then I don't know what to tell you.
If im not mistaken, Curtis Hixon park is the one right next to the children s museum right? Is there more than just a little field there that I didnt see? I Can tell you that me and my 2 year old daughter had fun for about 5 minutes running across the field until we were ready to leave.
I just dont agree with the money going back to the hood. IF the money went downtown and made some more attractions to bring people down there, id be for it.
How many damn "job centers" do these people need? They don't want the jobs, that's why they don't have them and someday people will realize this. When your GIVEN housing, GIVEN vouchers to pay your utility bills and GIVEN money for food, why would you want a job? This is just more money dumping into the areas of those people (when I refer to "them,they,those people, etc.. Im not referring to a race, im referring to the people that live that life). It sounds to me like there just going to dump more money into that area. I wish we could flush them out and give that prime real estate to people who will use and take care of it.
If you don't like it why don't you do as your name says and move to Sarasota. We all know there are enough of your kind holding this city back. I could actually start to like this place if there were less of you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not_liking_FL
Refute what.... you jack? There is no need to prove you wrong. I don't care if my money goes to making the city better.
And here is the type of attitude that turns people off to the arguments of one side of the isle. Always negative. Always insulting. Always close minded to ideas different than theirs.
Enjoy your hatred and negativity my friend. We don't have time for that type of attitude. We are too busy enjoying life and actually trying to make smart decisions which will make real improvements.....not just throw taxpayer money at connected fat cats.
thethinktank, it's damn if they do, and damn if they don't. These posters whine and moan about Tampa being such a bad place and needing this and that, and then they whine and moan when $$$ comes in for a great project that is going to be a boost in the arm for the city. They mostly don't even bother to read what's actually happening even when one posts excerpts from the articles. It's just easier to not bother to educate themselves and go onto message boards and complain about how horrible everything is.
gypsychic,
First off I have tons of respect for you, you provide excellent information on these boards. But I think you are misunderstanding what we are trying to get across.
It's not that we don't want anything spent in the city, we do, but not in the way this is being done. Propose a tax for the purpose at hand, once tax payers approved increase taxes, allocate funds as promises, tax payers happy, politicians happy. If politicians mishandled the funds, he gets the boot.
You are thrashing that for this. I want petals everywhere I walk, print some money, tell people how this will create jobs, give friends, petal grower, picker, thrower handsome contracts paying them well over. People's purchasing power robbed, blame a mysterious boogie man (inflation). People unhappy, poor, and confused. The same people receiving the cash now fool people to vote for me, and the I get to stay in office. Most politicians play these games. They look like Heros for 'helping' create jobs, little do people know they are getting looted.
The first is the reason this country became the best in the world. The second is what has destroyed countries like Russia and is slowly killing the US.
Let's change our ways...
Last edited by SarasotaBound1; 12-15-2012 at 10:26 AM..
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I thought this creats job. 
.
