Is Tampa Bay big enough to support rail lines? (Orlando: how much, homes)

[thethinktank]

Originally Posted by gonzoUSF

-- You don't build light rail or any rail system so people can go to Target or any similar stores, that is not the purpose of rail

Not to mention that it's a joy to carry a 24 pack of toilet paper and jumbo cheese curls through transit turnstiles.

[thethinktank]

Originally Posted by TXRyan23

There are many stories online about the financial mess that rail, be it light or high speed, truly are..

The Bullet Train to Bankruptcy - Lou Dolinar - National Review Online

Should the Public Pay for Unprofitable Transit Routes? - Commute - The Atlantic Cities

(OPINION) Light Rail 'Nothing Short of a Money Pit' - Hopkins, MN Patch

Light Rail: Boon or Boondoggle?

I just wonder how politicians are going to go to tax payers and ask them to foot the bill for something that likely 80% of them won't use and which the city/county/state will actually lose money on?

Then again, they did it for Raymond James Stadiums and it passed, so you never truly know, do you?

The problem with tossing up a bunch of links supporting one side of an argument is that the other side can toss up a bunch of links supporting their side. But w/r/t yours, one is about high speed regional rail in California, another is specifically about low-ridership routes within larger systems, and another is from Patch.com.

[TXRyan23]

Originally Posted by thethinktank

The problem with tossing up a bunch of links supporting one side of an argument is that the other side can toss up a bunch of links supporting their side. But w/r/t yours, one is about high speed regional rail in California, another is specifically about low-ridership routes within larger systems, and another is from Patch.com.

You're kinda prissy aren't you? So far in this thread, you've managed to bash every single person that hasn't agreed with you.

Can you give me a list of pre-approved websites, blogs, or other forms of media where I might get content that fits your approval?

btw, In my post, I mentioned "high speed rail" aka bullet trains.

[thethinktank]

Originally Posted by TXRyan23

So far in this thread, you've managed to bash every single person that hasn't agreed with you.

I haven't bashed people, I haven't called anyone names or the like. I've called-out poor methods of argument though:
1) demonstrative, rhetorical questions
2) subjective, declarative statements
3) straw man arguments
4) links to one-sided, loosely-connected opinion articles

That kind of thing just serves to derail a discussion which could otherwise be really interesting and fruitful. It's also a pretty important one to have given that we'll be making decisions about it at the ballot soon.

Originally Posted by TXRyan23

You're kinda prissy aren't you?

If you're buying, I'll take a Zima, TXRyan23.

[TXRyan23]

Originally Posted by thethinktank

I haven't bashed people, I haven't called anyone names or the like. I've bashed poor methods of argument:
1) demonstrative, rhetorical questions
2) subjective, declarative statements
3) straw man arguments
4) links to one-sided, loosely-connected opinion articles

That kind of thing just serves to derail a discussion which could otherwise be really interesting and fruitful. It's also a pretty important one to have given that we'll be making decisions about it at the ballot soon.



If you're buying, I'll take a Zima, TXRyan23.

So, rather than bash peoples opinions, don't you think it might be "fruitful" to sway opinions, rather than tell people theirs is wrong or that you won't engage their questions?

Zima? Do they even still make that crap?

[tampagator89]

More highways mean more sprawl, and then in 20 years this area will REALLY be in trouble.

More people should just move towards downtown and Westshore, let the city get denser, then we wouldn't even have to discuss light rail as much as a simple downtown-S. Tampa streetcar extension to take everyone around, or a short urban rail line.

Now all those who opposed me on "densification" threads can see why we need it by looking through this very thread alone.

[TXRyan23]

Originally Posted by tampagator89

More highways mean more sprawl, and then in 20 years this area will REALLY be in trouble.

More people should just move towards downtown and Westshore, let the city get denser, then we wouldn't even have to discuss light rail as much as a simple downtown-S. Tampa streetcar extension to take everyone around, or a short urban rail line.

Now all those who opposed me on "densification" threads can see why we need it by looking through this very thread alone.

Why not allow the Tampa/St Pete/Lakeland/Orlando areas to become one large metro, then build a bullet train. Everyone wins.

[vaughanwilliams]

Eisenhower heard the same arguments when he signed the Federal Aid-Highway act.

[TXRyan23]

Originally Posted by vaughanwilliams

Eisenhower heard the same arguments when he signed the Federal Aid-Highway act.

If you'll notice, a large number of our roadways, overpasses, and bridges are reaching their estimated lifetime age, and are in need or repairs or replacements.

Where will that money come from once we're building a profitless train that will be used by only 20% of the population? (that's a VERY liberal estimate)

[thethinktank]

Originally Posted by tampagator89

then we wouldn't even have to discuss light rail as much as a simple downtown-S. Tampa streetcar extension to take everyone around, or a short urban rail line.

I live in South Tampa, so it'll be many years if not decades until a rail line connects my area to the proposed network. I'm okay with that, since there are other areas that would benefit from coverage more than my own.

But in a perfect world, where money is no object, I'd be totally pumped to have the existing trolley extended to include UT, Davis Islands, Hyde Park, SoHo and Palma Ceia. I'd ride the knickers off that trolley if this loop were included. My car would get zero use unless I left town or did a big shopping trip.

(again, perfect world, money is no object, not seriously suggesting this, just dreaming)

----

In other words, I need to move back to pre-automobile Tampa in the late 1800s:

"In its early years, the company operated just over 21 miles of tracks with main lines extending to Ybor City, West Tampa and Ballast Point. At its peak, 190 streetcars covered Tampa’s 53 miles of streetcar lines along 11 routes. The streetcars ran from 4:30 a.m. to 2:00 a.m. every day."