Young man considering Tampa (Clearwater: employment, quality of life, places to live)

[craigtnelson]

I only say that because the job market here is rough by most city standards. There are opportunities but they are relatively few, and competition is ultra fierce. Plus, salaries are lower on average compared to many other cities, even ones in the south. I have seen young person after young person dream of Florida living without giving it too much thought, only to come down, stay a year or two, and bail... citing the usual gripes - too hot, too many trashy (and old) people, no opportunities, etc.

I have several friends in Houston, and they all say basically the same thing that online research shows - that salaries are a hit or miss thing compared to Tampa (generally hit), cost of living is even lower than here, it's an actual city with an actual downtown and things to do, and the job market is strong. Same with Dallas. I know it's more expensive in Atlanta but salaries are higher and the job market is not in the dumps like here. All three are world class cities with culture and things to do. Personally, I would recommend Charlotte or Atlanta. Tampa is not for youth and it never will be until the people who run this town stop thinking it's a 1950s-era small town.

[BucFan]

It would be interesting to see what FloridaKash's take on a young person's question about finding white collar work in this area - he's gone through the process twice and has a lot of insight on the prospects.

I really think new professionals need to think out-of-the-box nowadays. Cliche' to say, I know, but even finding work overseas might be required to start. I know people that graduated from USF with business majors that took jobs eventually in Indonesia and other countries (and are making a good salary for doing that).

[Manimarco]

Originally Posted by craigtnelson

I only say that because the job market here is rough by most city standards. There are opportunities but they are relatively few, and competition is ultra fierce. Plus, salaries are lower on average compared to many other cities, even ones in the south. I have seen young person after young person dream of Florida living without giving it too much thought, only to come down, stay a year or two, and bail... citing the usual gripes - too hot, too many trashy (and old) people, no opportunities, etc.

I have several friends in Houston, and they all say basically the same thing that online research shows - that salaries are a hit or miss thing compared to Tampa (generally hit), cost of living is even lower than here, it's an actual city with an actual downtown and things to do, and the job market is strong. Same with Dallas. I know it's more expensive in Atlanta but salaries are higher and the job market is not in the dumps like here. All three are world class cities with culture and things to do. Personally, I would recommend Charlotte or Atlanta. Tampa is not for youth and it never will be until the people who run this town stop thinking it's a 1950s-era small town.

Thanks again for the response. I like the fact that you take an opposing view. It helps me remember not to put on the blindfolds and only see what I want to see in a city. I was unaware that competition was "ultra fierce" as you put it. I will certainly have to look into that now. If the situation is bad enough (i.e very bad) I would have to rule Tampa out.

You describe Houston like a lot of other people I have talked to do. It seems very appealing to me. I am glad it has a good downtown with things to do and a vibrant culture, but they way you say it you imply that Tampa does not. Is this true? That would bother me.

I never thought of Charlotte. Gave it a quick overview and I am extremely interested. Apparently there is a large financial sector there and it is a big city which is good. From the little I have seen the city looks beautiful. From what I can tell it seems like it is geared towards couples or people settling down, which wold be my only worry. I have to say though, you are the first person I have met who has positive things to say about Atlanta.

[Tamatem]

I also agree that white collar jobs here have some pretty major competition for positions here in Tampa. It would be *so* much easier for my husband to find a local job if we were back in Houston, but we chose to come back here because it fit our lifestyle so much more. Much more laid back and the weather is nicer :P (among other things).

I honestly felt like Houston was a madhouse, and wouldn't necessarily agree that it has a "vibrant culture". It is fine though, and there are some really lovely qualities about Houston, but the fit was wrong for us, as I said.

Ditto on Charlotte as well! Big financial district, and pretty warm with seasons!

[craigtnelson]

Originally Posted by Manimarco

You describe Houston like a lot of other people I have talked to do. It seems very appealing to me. I am glad it has a good downtown with things to do and a vibrant culture, but they way you say it you imply that Tampa does not. Is this true? That would bother me.

I'll be blunt. Tampa and "vibrant downtown" are polar opposites. In order for there to be a vibrant downtown, you need amenities, nightlife, reasons for people to visit after 5pm or on weekends. Tampa has none. It's a small office park with a few garages here and there. As much as I hate unchecked mindless, soulless, suburban sprawl, I can't blame people for escaping to the clean, modern (some of them) suburbs. There is not one single reason for them to stick around downtown. Come on down to visit. You'll see what I mean. Loads of potential that, in the time I've lived in FL, I've seen squandered time and time again. If we had a reason for young, college educated people to start moving here in droves (not the piddly scattered few here and there) and the disposable income generated by a strong white collar industry base (IE - no more damned call centers or service jobs catering to tourists or the elderly), things would start improving in an instant. But again, that's not what Tampa has been about for quite a while. It all goes back to the whole "status quo" thing. Too many people here are fine with things the way they are. If you're looking for a vibrant central core, Tampa is not the answer for you.

Spend some time "driving" around downtown on Google streetview and see for yourself. Also, marvel in how small and sparse it is. You can get from one edge of downtown to another in an instant. Don't be fooled by the picturesque skyline shots you see in a Google image search. Reality paints a much different picture.

I used to be a bit more optimistic about Tampa, but in my time here I've seen too many squandered opportunities, chances wasted, potential unrealized, for me to think that this city knows what to do with itself except for "keep on keeping on." Sorry if I seem pessimistic. I think at this stage, I just know better. People here hate change. It would take nothing short of a miracle to make this city a magnet for young, intellectual, urban types.

Originally Posted by Manimarco

I never thought of Charlotte. Gave it a quick overview and I am extremely interested. Apparently there is a large financial sector there and it is a big city which is good. From the little I have seen the city looks beautiful. From what I can tell it seems like it is geared towards couples or people settling down, which wold be my only worry. I have to say though, you are the first person I have met who has positive things to say about Atlanta.

Charlotte is a wonderful town. Amenities galore, and a strong core that caters to the intelligent, younger crowd. The immediate burbs are affordable for young families. Same for Raleigh.

Atlanta is what it is. I personally wouldn't move there but I'm older and married. If I was still in my 20s and single, it would be on my radar.





I strongly encourage you to put down the keyboard and visit the area. Stay for a bit. Take a long look around. Many opinions on here will vary across the entire spectrum. Some are good, some are terrible, some are through rose colored glasses in a world where bugs don't exist and it's never hot or humid. The best answer you can get is the one you generate yourself.

[Manimarco]

Originally Posted by craigtnelson

I strongly encourage you to put down the keyboard and visit the area. Stay for a bit. Take a long look around. Many opinions on here will vary across the entire spectrum. Some are good, some are terrible, some are through rose colored glasses in a world where bugs don't exist and it's never hot or humid. The best answer you can get is the one you generate yourself.

Yea that is the only way I will really know. I am going to do a little more research online and then narrow my decision down to 5 cities. Then I will try to visit each one at some point and make my decision from there. I appreciate the help.

[craigtnelson]

Also, I would look into DC. DC's got something for everyone, a robust, recession-resistant (almost proof) economy driven by federal jobs, an unbelievably vibrant downtown with amenities galore, and if you played your cards right, you could get by just fine without a car which could help offset the cost of living. I recommend to all bright, young folks that they spend at least part of their 20s in the earlier stages of their careers in a large city thriving with opportunity. Don't worry about saving every penny you make just yet. You're young. Get out there and figure yourself out first before you decide to rot in Tampa.

[corvidae]

I would suggest looking at St. Pete or Sarasota rather than Tampa as Tampa is far from the beaches.

In terms of the person who said Tampa doesn't have a vibrant downtown, I agree. However it does have Ybor City near downtown, which has all of the stuff you'd expect to find in a downtown and more. But I generally prefer St. Pete.

[Occifer]

There's also a pretty big financial industry in Jacksonville, although I wouldn't choose Jacksonville over Tampa.

[Lior Arel]

St. Pete over Tampa. We have a great downtown and our waterfront blows Tampa's to smithereens. Plus we are close to the gulf beaches.

Miami is a big city, but its not nearly as "rat racy" as some others. It does have the low wage problem that plagues our entire state, though. We don't have state income tax and our real estate is cheaper than most, but it doesn't quite offset the lower wage for many.

I think Florida in general is a tough state to build a life/career in. It's better to move here when one is more established.

PS: If you're within 5 miles of the gulf or bay, less than 10% of the trees lose their leaves in winter, and you rarely see a day with a high temp below 65. Especially South of Clearwater. St. Pete is nearly tropical in some areas