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It's very easy to note all of the developments and greatness of one city and fail to include the other city, in this case Tampa. So I will take it upon myself to do so. I'm not trying to turn this into a St. Pete vs. Tampa battle, however.
These are all projects proposed or under construction:
-The Martin---Channelside, 24 stories, 300 units, 40,000sq. ft of retail in two stories
-SkyHouse----Channelside, 23 stories, 320 units, with ground floor retail
-Straz Tower----Downtown, 36 stories, 350 units, 10,000sq ft of retail
-Madison Heights---Downtown, 7 stories, 80 units
-Unnamed---Channelside, +- 20 stories, ~250 units (just announced today)
-Crescent Bayshore---just south of Downtown, (2) 8 stories, 367 units
-SouthGate Office Tower---Downtown, 20 stories, 450,000sq. ft.
-Aloft Hotel---Downtown
-LeMeridan (Hotel)---Downtown
-Encore--1 opened, 1U/C, 3 more planned
-PierHouse---Channelside,(4) 4 stories, 356 units, ground floor retail
-University of Tampa major expansion plans
Tampa General Hospital mainland expansion plans
These are simply projects, planned or under construction. I know for a fact, St. Pete is no wheres close to having this much projects under consideration. I'm not arguing the fact or notion that downtown St. Pete is more lively, walkable or whathave you either, just listing how downtown tampa is going through a huge change at the moment. Keep in mind this is for the greater downtown core. I could list all of the Westshore and SoHo and NoHo projects as well.
I hope most of those get built! I like how Tampa is the high rise city type, and St. Pete is more ground-level.
BTW, there are six residential buildings currently under construction here in downtown St. Pete, amd plans for several new retail sites. So "no where close" is an incorrect assumption. In fact, puts are in the building phase, so we're slightly ahead. It's not a competition, though. We are two different cities with two different favors. I look at it as St. Pete is to San Francisco what Tampa is to L.A.
I hope most of those get built! I like how Tampa is the high rise city type, and St. Pete is more ground-level.
BTW, there are six residential buildings currently under construction here in downtown St. Pete, amd plans for several new retail sites. So "no where close" is an incorrect assumption. In fact, puts are in the building phase, so we're slightly ahead. It's not a competition, though. We are two different cities with two different favors. I look at it as St. Pete is to San Francisco what Tampa is to L.A.
I should have said, no wheres close in terms of scale or size.
However, I agree with you on the City vs. City competitiveness, unfortunately, that's how both cities think on government level, as well as their respective citizens for the most part. The region as a whole, has so much potential, if we could just figure out a way to interconnect St. Petes pros with Tampa's pros. Which is a whole different subject for another day.
I should have said, no wheres close in terms of scale or size.
However, I agree with you on the City vs. City competitiveness, unfortunately, that's how both cities think on government level, as well as their respective citizens for the most part. The region as a whole, has so much potential, if we could just figure out a way to interconnect St. Petes pros with Tampa's pros. Which is a whole different subject for another day.
Most if us in St. Pete don't try to compete with Tampa or give it much thought. I've lived in both and that's one of the things I like better over here. Not so much self promotion! Our downtown has a larger population than Tampa's downtown, tho and way more retail and recreation. If Tampa builds all those homes in downtown, though, they'll catch up pretty quick. People will want to play near where they live. If it happens, I might actually consider a move back. Naawww, I really wouldn't
I hope most of those get built! I like how Tampa is the high rise city type, and St. Pete is more ground-level.
BTW, there are six residential buildings currently under construction here in downtown St. Pete, amd plans for several new retail sites. So "no where close" is an incorrect assumption. In fact, puts are in the building phase, so we're slightly ahead. It's not a competition, though. We are two different cities with two different favors. I look at it as St. Pete is to San Francisco what Tampa is to L.A.
Half of those "downtown Tampa" buildings are not downtown. And unlike St Pete, where the political and business community is almost universally behind the new development, Tampa has more hurdles to jump through. I wish them luck against the "concerned critics".
Sure, I guess if we are getting technical, most of those aren't in downtown proper. I think I prefaced that in the beginning. But if someone says that Channelside is not a part of downtown Tampa, then in my mind, you have zero credibility in an debate. The Bayshore project U/C just south of the Publix, is also not in "Downtown" either, but a 5 minute walk to "Downtown", essentially makes that downtown.
And yes, some library critics managed to delay the Straz Tower for a couple of months. And the SouthGate project has been delayed for a year. The point remains though.
Sure, I guess if we are getting technical, most of those aren't in downtown proper. I think I prefaced that in the beginning. But if someone says that Channelside is not a part of downtown Tampa, then in my mind, you have zero credibility in an debate. The Bayshore project U/C just south of the Publix, is also not in "Downtown" either, but a 5 minute walk to "Downtown", essentially makes that downtown.
And yes, some library critics managed to delay the Straz Tower for a couple of months. And the SouthGate project has been delayed for a year. The point remains though.
The thing with Tampa is that "downtown" is dominated by the Financial District, so much of the residential will be built in Channelside, Ybor, and Tampa Heights. However, the Streetcar connects those neighborhoods, so they are integrated with Downtown. St. Pete has more opportunity for a denser downtown, but Tampa has the space for more adjacent development. Again, two different styles to the cities. I think they both have a place on the shores of Tampa Bay.
Maybe if we did make it a competition, they would all get built and then some! See who can build up the most, the fastest! This place would like Houston, LOL.
Most if us in St. Pete don't try to compete with Tampa or give it much thought. I've lived in both and that's one of the things I like better over here. Not so much self promotion! Our downtown has a larger population than Tampa's downtown, tho and way more retail and recreation. If Tampa builds all those homes in downtown, though, they'll catch up pretty quick. People will want to play near where they live. If it happens, I might actually consider a move back. Naawww, I really wouldn't
I agree. I've never heard anyone, citizen or politician, say they wished St. Pete was more like Tampa.
One problem with all the high end condo and retail development downtown-what made an area desirable (funkiness, affordability, uniqueness) is often replaced with development that caters to a upper crust crowd exclusively. It isn't the million dollar condos or the expensive restaurants that makes downtown St. Pete great-it's the weird little antique and curio shops, the arts community, the Emerald, the State Theater, Club Detroit, concerts in the park, Al Lang Field (I miss minor league baseball), the Farmers Market, Coney Island Grill.
The fact that you are so ignorant about the difference in the two downtowns doesn't do you any favors in the argument. You're just wrong, and trying to defend that position is embarrassing.
How am I ignorant about the difference in the two downtown areas? In defending Tampa from your angry, subjective hyperbole, I'm not suggesting anything negative about St. Pete. It's a great city.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_tino
From a couple minutes of research, here are a few new residential buildings and hotels being built in downtown St Pete:
The Sol
Bayway Apartments
Tropicana Center
Campbell Landings
Grand Bohemian Hotel
Silhouette
Ventures Tower
Marantha By The Bay
The Lansing
Rowland Place
And I'll point to GonzoUSF's list of new developments in Tampa in response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_tino
Just from my recent visits downtown, these bars/restaurants have opened in the past month:
Beach & Vine
The Canopy
260 First
Yard of Ale
Green Bench Brewing
The One Night Stand
Mike's Tap & Tavern
Soul
Ale & The Witch BBQ
Cycle Brewing
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_tino
Over the past two years, DSP has opened about 2 new restauarants/bars EVERY WEEK. In fact, there is a column in my local version of the Tampa Bay Times every week that is just titled "New Bar/Restaurant Openings".
So that's 104 restaurants in the last two years. Wow. All in downtown St. Pete? Just the new ones? I've been to St. Pete once a week for the last four months and I haven't seen all of those new restaurants.
Oh, wait, yeah-- hyperbole from chi_tino, making things up as he goes along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_tino
We can play this game every month if you wish: I'll list new places in downtown St Pete, and you can list the latest business to evacuate Channelside.
Now that we've got hyperbole and making-things-up out of the way, let's see if you can do some selective reasoning. Channelside! Perfect example. You don't disappoint, chi_tino.
Channelside is to Tampa as Baywalk is to St. Pete. Both cities have these failed developments that are on their way toward a re-imagination. Baywalk is further along, of course, but it's disingenuous of you to knock one mess when you've gone through your own in a similar fashion. 90% vacancy rates? Yikes. Fortunately, both mistakes are likely to be behind us in a few years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_tino
I just listed 10 new DSP openings in the past month. If you account for the dozen or so dead sites in downtown Tampa, I would love for you to come up with 22 restaurants/bars that have opened in the past five years in DT. You can't, because the number of places actually keeps shrinking.
As part of my profession, I consult with new restaurants and hotels here in the Tampa Bay and beyond. I worked with the Birchwood Inn, Birch and Vine, and The Canopy, in fact. The restaurant scene in the bay is seen from the industry as happening in Tampa, and some of the new places in St. Pete are trying to position St. Pete as a food destination of its own. I'm thrilled about this, because it means more work for me and more competition between our cities-- competition which could raise the standards in both areas.
As for new restaurants opening in Tampa, it's a different town. Things happen here between downtown and South Tampa like downtown St. Pete and the areas to the NE. 22 restaurants in the last five years in Tampa? I can list a lot more. If you're going to restrict that to downtown, that's belying the nature of this city and it's connection to South Tampa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_tino
You bet I'm happy to be here. It's more fun at half the price. You really should borrow a car and drive over sometime. Except for Beach Drive, street parking is free after 6 pm.
I'm glad you enjoy St. Pete. I don't believe you are happy though. I can't image you'd spend your time online subjectively bashing groups of people and their town while completely misrepresenting and mischaracterizing everyone who disagrees with you. That doesn't sound like a happy person to me.
Personally, I love St. Pete. I love Tampa. I'm aware of their problems and the differences between them. I only wish they were geographically closer so I could enjoy them both whenever I wanted. Until then, cheers to my neighbors across the bay!
Sure, I guess if we are getting technical, most of those aren't in downtown proper. I think I prefaced that in the beginning.
That's part of the issue though-- Downtown Tampa has a pretty involved and direct connection with South Tampa that isn't really replicated in St. Pete. That's not a knock on St. Pete at all, but there's a ton of activity in South Tampa that isn't shared by an adjacent section to DTSP.
There's a ton of development going on adjacent to downtown Tampa, like the new Post properties going in at Howard and Swann, the Epicurean around the corner on Howard, there's the condo complex going in at Fig and Rome, the demolition of the public housing around 275 and the expansion of University of Tampa. South Tampa is quickly densifying, the dividing line at Kennedy is blurring with expansion going north, and the areas adjacent to downtown are slowly making a greater connection to South Tampa. When the current slew of highrises and hotels and the Encore are complete, there is likely to be a dense corridor from Ybor to Bay-to-Bay.
If we're comparing the two downtowns, St. Pete obviously has the upper hand, but the urban part of Tampa continues into adjacent areas in a way that isn't really replicated in St. Pete. That distinction is important when considering the development of each city.
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See who can build up the most, the fastest! This place would like Houston, LOL.
