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Old 07-12-2013, 06:08 PM
 
2,729 posts, read 5,182,197 times
Reputation: 2357

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida Vince View Post
I agree with the ambition reply. Combine that with determination and guidance and anyone could attain the "American Dream", educated or not. I believe that people tend to use things (family dynamic, environment, race, bad luck ...) or statistics like whats shown in the previous post to justify their lack of ambition. For whats its worth, I think that we would have become successful (our own definition of it) no matter what state we lived in or what career fields we ended up exploring.

I have always believed that people put a person with a paper degree on a higher pedestal than someone who is financially educated without the degree. How many people do you know with good salaries (say $75K+), advanced degrees (bachelors, masters ...) or specialized positions (engineers, physicians) that are living on the edge of BK and have no significant retirement or savings accounts? I know a few and where they live at or the economy is not the reason for their troubles.

The reasons we have done so well with a lower level degree is that 1) we've always worked hard and pressed forward 2) we never got ourselves into debt early on with expensive college tuitions and 3) we've always lived below our means, saved, invested and spent less than we earned (basically were financially educated from early on).

Quick story - a few years back we were looking for a house. The realtor was a person who was a friend of a friend and seemed like a normal person. After getting to know her, she would put her personal life out there for everyone to see. She would talk about the bad economy, the bad housing market and how she and her husband were talking about filing for bankruptcy due to the lack of income from being a realtor.

We were looking at some homes from Viera Builders, a Duda owned company (major landholders in FL and across the US), who had their beginnings as humble farmers and ranchers many, many years ago and are now worth hundreds of millions of $$$.

Her response when looking at their models was "Why would you want to buy a house from those stupid, uneducated farmers?" We immediately released her from representing us as she clearly had no grasp of her own situation and could never have had our best interests in mind. After all, the "stupid farmers" are doing quite well while she is filing BK. Lol.
Not trying to be personal but while you are an excellent example that what one MIGHT achieve if tries hard, education is clearly shown to be the gateway. I have no idea how you are not seeing this.

Nobody is denying your anecdotal example doesn't exist as you are the perfect example but that doesn't hold for the mass. Some of your statement are baffling as you make it sound like the majority of educated people are on the verge of BK.

If I were to segregate retirement account of people with their education, it will probably come out similar to the figure that Bucfan put for unemployment levels.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
27,798 posts, read 32,275,077 times
Reputation: 14611
Can't be a lawyer, doctor, banker, surgeon, airline pilot, nurse, and a plethora of other well paying professions without the appropriate education - ambition can get you only so far - hopefully far enough to take the required step to get the required education needed to do these jobs and get the deserved financial compensation (salary).
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:24 PM
 
153 posts, read 356,577 times
Reputation: 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeInDenudinFL View Post
Not trying to be personal but while you are an excellent example that what one MIGHT achieve if tries hard, education is clearly shown to be the gateway. I have no idea how you are not seeing this.

Nobody is denying your anecdotal example doesn't exist as you are the perfect example but that doesn't hold for the mass. Some of your statement are baffling as you make it sound like the majority of educated people are on the verge of BK.

If I were to segregate retirement account of people with their education, it will probably come out similar to the figure that Bucfan put for unemployment levels.
I hear what you're saying. I do believe that you put too much faith that a certain level of education makes you more financially fit than someone who takes a different path.

It has clearly been shown that with the rising costs of education and an unstable job market, a person who gets the lesser degree or jumps into a position as an apprentice will end up financially better in the 4-8 year period that it takes the same person to get the advanced degree.

How many people come out of college with a debt load as big as a mortgage, maxed out credit cards and little to no job prospects? Probably a lot more people than you're willing to admit to, and those with $100K salaries right out of school are few and far between.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:34 PM
 
153 posts, read 356,577 times
Reputation: 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by BucFan View Post
Can't be a lawyer, doctor, banker, surgeon, airline pilot, nurse, and a plethora of other well paying professions without the appropriate education - ambition can get you only so far - hopefully far enough to take the required step to get the required education needed to do these jobs and get the deserved financial compensation (salary).
My father in law has a bachelors degree and is a physician at a major university and my mother in law is in the dental field as is my wife. They just retired this year in their mid sixties when they hit their $1MM retirement account mark. To me that is sad, as we will be there by the time I am 45 and my wife is 43, twenty years ahead of them with a lesser degree.

That being said, to me that reinforces that an advanced degree is not the determining factor of where we end up at in life. It's just like with a house or car, a lot of people use their degree as a form of self accomplishment, when they are no more financially sound than a person making significantly less. Yes, the earning potential is more, but if you cant keep it than it makes no difference.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:34 PM
 
4,586 posts, read 5,586,604 times
Reputation: 4369
All this talk is useless! Please show me one company in Tampa Bay that is:
1: looking to hire someone with just high school and gives them the op to excell
2: looking at less than a 4 year degree + two years of experience minimum...
3: looking to pay a livable wage + benefits to those with HS or Assoc


Just cause someone only has HS or Assoc doesn't make them less hard working! Having your 4 year degree just means you have more debt to pay back. There are a lot of ways to study on your own today and know the same or more than someone with that 4 year degree. The poster before is surely the exception and not the norm. If that was the norm no one would be complaining.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:38 PM
 
2,729 posts, read 5,182,197 times
Reputation: 2357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida Vince View Post
I hear what you're saying. I do believe that you put too much faith that a certain level of education makes you more financially fit than someone who takes a different path.
It is not me putting faith, it is the data showing that. Otherwise, we would not be talking about education and we would have said, just work hard and you get there.

Quote:

It has clearly been shown that with the rising costs of education and an unstable job market, a person who gets the lesser degree or jumps into a position as an apprentice will end up financially better in the 4-8 year period that it takes the same person to get the advanced degree.
What exactly that means? Are you saying that a person who is working for 4-to 8 years rather than go to school will have more money in that 4 to 8 year? Of course, when you are at school, you are not making money. In fact, most are piling debt. So, a person who could work in Walt-mart will have more money at the end of the year. Is that the point you are trying to make? I am kind of lost in this one.

Quote:
How many people come out of college with a debt load as big as a mortgage, maxed out credit cards and little to no job prospects? Probably a lot more people than you're willing to admit to, and those with $100K salaries right out of school are few and far between.
No denying that. But the question is over their life time a person that went to college will be better off than those that didn't on AVERAGE? And the answer is yes.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:41 PM
 
153 posts, read 356,577 times
Reputation: 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoProIP View Post
All this talk is useless! Please show me one company in Tampa Bay that is:
1: looking to hire someone with just high school and gives them the op to excell
2: looking at less than a 4 year degree + two years of experience minimum...
3: looking to pay a livable wage + benefits to those with HS or Assoc


Just cause someone only has HS or Assoc doesn't make them less hard working! Having your 4 year degree just means you have more debt to pay back. There are a lot of ways to study on your own today and know the same or more than someone with that 4 year degree. The poster before is surely the exception and not the norm. If that was the norm no one would be complaining.
I bet you that someone with a lesser degree and 4-6 years of credible experience and accomplishments would trump someone with a piece of paper in hand, in debt by $150K and demanding a starting figure up in the stratosphere. I'd put $$$ on it.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:43 PM
 
485 posts, read 1,008,756 times
Reputation: 471
None of this really matters. Live for today. You could drop dead tomorrow.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:52 PM
 
Location: North of South, South of North
8,704 posts, read 10,847,193 times
Reputation: 5150
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeInDenudinFL View Post
You were just showed how education level is negatively correlated with unemployment percentage.

What exactly is your point? Are you disputing that fact?
Shown, not showed.
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Old 07-12-2013, 06:52 PM
 
2,729 posts, read 5,182,197 times
Reputation: 2357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florida Vince View Post
My father in law has a bachelors degree and is a physician at a major university and my mother in law is in the dental field as is my wife. They just retired this year in their mid sixties when they hit their $1MM retirement account mark. To me that is sad, as we will be there by the time I am 45 and my wife is 43, twenty years ahead of them with a lesser degree.

That being said, to me that reinforces that an advanced degree is not the determining factor of where we end up at in life. It's just like with a house or car, a lot of people use their degree as a form of self accomplishment, when they are no more financially sound than a person making significantly less. Yes, the earning potential is more, but if you cant keep it than it makes no difference.
Again, you are just making anecdotal example.

Here is net worth reported by census bureau. net worth accounts for the debt that you seem to be latching.

Quote:
From 2005 to 2010, all educational attainment groups experienced decreases in their median net worth.

For example, those with a high school diploma saw their median net worth decrease by 39 percent, and those with a bachelor’s degree saw their median net worth decrease by 32 percent. At the same time, higher levels of educational attainment continued to be associated with higher levels of net worth.

In 2010, those with a graduate or professional degree had a median net worth of $245,763, while the median net worth of those with a high-school diploma was $42,223.

Over the past decade, those with higher levels of educational attainment also fared better than those with lower levels of educational attainment (see Figure 2). In 2000, those with a bachelor’s degree had a median net worth value almost twice as large as those with a high-school diploma; by 2010, this number had risen to almost three and half times as large. The same pattern can be seen when examining the graduate or professional degree to high school diploma ratio; this ratio has increased from 3.5 to 5.8 over the period of 2000-2010.
Source: Changes in Household Net Worth from 2005 to 2010 | Random Samplings

Now if you want to continue your opinion, you are free. But that is the fact.
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