Tampa Bay home builders seems to be very optimistic....another crash? (foreclosure, mortgages)

[PhotoProIP]

Originally Posted by dothetwist

I also think we're heading for another hiccup in real estate. Federal rules have relaxed loan requirements, yet again. And they are letting people who went through foreclosures back in as buyers again; these are people who proved themselves incapable of managing their money and many of whom lived rent/mortgage-free for up to 5 years while the banks went through the foreclosure process. I've seen this movie before and the sequel is always worse.

That's not it; an employee has no control over the company he/she works for. Many companies appear, get rich, then disappear without offering pensions etc. People get laid off right and left, so it is not that most that got screwed cannot manage their money, is that most people want a house to live in, and many of those who lost out, lost due to no fault of their own because:
1. Some got sucked in be real estate talk: "Ohh it won't stay on the market long", =bidding wars, people were sucked into paying EVEN more than the asking price. This is a dirty game of playing the "emotional strings".
2. Most are not familiar with mortgage law slang to understand every word regarding what "0% down" REALLY means.
3. Yes, there were some idiots, mostly transplants, who bought more than they could chew. Many "investors and flippers" in that category.

To make a blank statement that everyone who got screwed cannot manage money is reckless and insulting.

[AES328]

I for one can't wait to see what all those starry-eyed transplants in Texas and North Dakota say when they're looking down the barrel of a collapsing economy. Actually it's already started. Just peruse their respective forums. Fear is spreading. Funny how undesirable a place can be when there are no high paying jobs.

As far as the local housing market, I assume you all realize that Florida is not the only market where booms/busts occur. Yes it's certainly more pronounced here than, say, a more stable northeastern market but the game is still the same. People are still scooping up properties in my neighborhood at relatively quick speed (new housing), so something must still be going well. I'm starting to think of relocating my family out west in a few years, so if the market correction occurs, I'll just wait for the next boom and sell at some obnoxious price and leave.

[dothetwist]

Originally Posted by PhotoProIP

That's not it; an employee has no control over the company he/she works for. Many companies appear, get rich, then disappear without offering pensions etc. People get laid off right and left, so it is not that most that got screwed cannot manage their money, is that most people want a house to live in, and many of those who lost out, lost due to no fault of their own because:
1. Some got sucked in be real estate talk: "Ohh it won't stay on the market long", =bidding wars, people were sucked into paying EVEN more than the asking price. This is a dirty game of playing the "emotional strings".
2. Most are not familiar with mortgage law slang to understand every word regarding what "0% down" REALLY means.
3. Yes, there were some idiots, mostly transplants, who bought more than they could chew. Many "investors and flippers" in that category.

To make a blank statement that everyone who got screwed cannot manage money is reckless and insulting.

People who ARE capable of managing their money do NOT get "sucked in" nor do they enter into legal financial contracts when they don't "understand every word."

[AES328]

Originally Posted by PhotoProIP

That's not it; an employee has no control over the company he/she works for. Many companies appear, get rich, then disappear without offering pensions etc. People get laid off right and left, so it is not that most that got screwed cannot manage their money, is that most people want a house to live in, and many of those who lost out, lost due to no fault of their own because:
1. Some got sucked in be real estate talk: "Ohh it won't stay on the market long", =bidding wars, people were sucked into paying EVEN more than the asking price. This is a dirty game of playing the "emotional strings".
2. Most are not familiar with mortgage law slang to understand every word regarding what "0% down" REALLY means.
3. Yes, there were some idiots, mostly transplants, who bought more than they could chew. Many "investors and flippers" in that category.

To make a blank statement that everyone who got screwed cannot manage money is reckless and insulting.

Yeah. People who make bad financial decisions are always the victim. It's totally the fault of the lenders and evil corporations.

[PhotoProIP]

Originally Posted by dothetwist

People who ARE capable of managing their money do NOT get "sucked in" nor do they enter into legal financial contracts when they don't "understand every word."

Yeah right...that's bull, and those you're talking about are probably numbered like this: 0.0000000000000001%.

You seem to forget our "demographics" here!

That legal slang is not something kids learn in kindergarten nor high school. People who buy homes, (because let's face it the flip side is what? homelessness?), come from all walks of life, and to assume(which is very rude BTW) that they all should know that legal slang is not only unfair, but stupid too. When was the last time you saw a real estate agent go over each individual page in such documents? they usually flip the pages and go: "sign here"...all rush rush...not everyone is able to hire an attorney to explain those documents in detail. Younger people know nothing of this process either.

[PhotoProIP]

Originally Posted by AES328

Yeah. People who make bad financial decisions are always the victim. It's totally the fault of the lenders and evil corporations.

You can be in denial all you want, but back in 2005/2006 that was ALL that was offered. Properties that were not worth $150k sold for $400k.

What was the alternative back then exactly? Point me to it! Let me guess: "Not buying" right?
Then!

[AES328]

Originally Posted by PhotoProIP

You can be in denial all you want, but back in 2005/2006 that was ALL that was offered. Properties that were not worth $150k sold for $400k.

What was the alternative back then exactly? Point me to it! Let me guess: "Not buying" right?
Then!

Correct. If a property is too expensive, you don't buy it. You find a more reasonable, smaller property, you rent, or you move somewhere else. This is not rocket science. Just because a bank tells you that you're able to buy a $400,000 house with bad credit and a $45,000/year HH income, that doesn't mean you do it. Common sense 101. I guess you missed that class.

[DUNNDFRNT]

Originally Posted by dothetwist

QE is going to end soon (as it should).
Fracking is the reason the Saudis are letting/forcing oil prices to plummet. Look at the DOW the past 5 business days. Ouch! It only costs the Saudis $15 a gallon to produce oil; it costs frackers in North Dakota about $50 a gallon. The Saudis aren't going to back down; they can take oil down to $30 and still profit. They will keep it there until the frackers say 'uncle' and then we're back under OPEC's thumb.

For those of you hailing this oil drop as great news....that's short-sighted. Already there are layoffs in North Dakota fracking fields; our economy and those of Europe are going to take a big hit, shortly.

The fear with QE is that it can be too effective in its intent, so it can cause runaway inflation, that has not been the case, most economist agree that there should be a slow downto the QE but it should not be stopped completely which it probably will because it has become politicized as it has worked itself into political talking points.
While the saudis are probably the exception most members of the OPEC are too dependent on oil prices to play that game, currently about 40% of our consumption comes from domestic sources, if 100% of our consumption came from domestic sources the reserves will be depleted in 8 years, so at the 40% rate that means in about 18 years we would be dry, and being that we are not OPEC's only costumer it makes no sense for them to leave money on the table to drive out a competitor with such a small life span.
As far as builders go, they are an entity with the purpose of making money, as long as they are getting an acceptable return on their investment they will keep building at the highest price their targeted market will bear, when the market slows they will lower their prices until they cant get a good enough return on their investment then will close up shop since they build in phases their risk is minimized, write off their losses move to the next hot market and then the next set of builders come in the ones that make 80k townhouses the ones they can sell because its way cheaper than renting, then the people with 350k houses take the biggest hit.

[dothetwist]

Originally Posted by PhotoProIP

You can be in denial all you want, but back in 2005/2006 that was ALL that was offered. Properties that were not worth $150k sold for $400k.

What was the alternative back then exactly? Point me to it! Let me guess: "Not buying" right?
Then!

IF you bought it, you pay off the loan you legally obtained. TOO MANY walked away from loans they CAN afford, just don't want to pay. "Strategic" foreclosures are when people walk away from loans they can afford to pay, but decide NOT to pay because the property's value has diminished. These are the MAJORITY of foreclosures.

When I lost money in the stock market, when my 401K's took a substantial hit of up to 30%, NO ONE BAILED ME OUT. I just took the hit, stayed in the market, until it recovered most of the loss. THAT's what honorable holders of mortgages on houses that are 'under water' do. They DON'T walk away from their obligations.

[Vannort54]

Originally Posted by dothetwist

QE is going to end soon (as it should).
Fracking is the reason the Saudis are letting/forcing oil prices to plummet. Look at the DOW the past 5 business days. Ouch! It only costs the Saudis $15 a gallon to produce oil; it costs frackers in North Dakota about $50 a gallon. The Saudis aren't going to back down; they can take oil down to $30 and still profit. They will keep it there until the frackers say 'uncle' and then we're back under OPEC's thumb.

For those of you hailing this oil drop as great news....that's short-sighted. Already there are layoffs in North Dakota fracking fields; our economy and those of Europe are going to take a big hit, shortly.

You mean barrel not gallons?