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We looked at a house that was built with Chinese drywall that has been remediated - all the drywall was ripped from the house, electrical wiring and copper piping was replaced, new a/c and appliances, etc. It has also passed inspection by the county since the work was done.
It has been on the market a while and the price is definitely attractive. I assume a lot of potential buyers don't want to have to deal with a home that had Chinese drywall.
If we decided to buy it, we'd have it inspected by someone who is qualified to evaluate whether the problem has been properly fixed. Obviously the current owner had to disclose this information.
My question: if we did buy it and then sold it down the line - say in five years - and assuming there is no evidence of a recurring issue since remediation, would we be legally require to disclose that the house once had Chinese drywall? In other words, does the fact that a house once had Chinese drywall make it obligatory for future owners to disclose this pretty much forever in any future sales?
My agent spoke to an attorney who specializes in real estate and claims that we would not need to make that disclosure in the future since the issue has been remediated and there is no recurrence. But I don't know if that is accurate. It seems logical otherwise it would be in the nature of a permanent black mark against these houses.
I was going to consult a RE attorney though unless there is some specific law or regulation addressing this issue or there is case law that clarifies the appropriate treatment, I don't know that any attorney can give me a categorical response.
I was wondering if any members of this forum can shed light on whether future disclosure is mandatory or if the information my agent got from a RE lawyer is accurate.
I'm not a lawyer but at house that at one point had a sink hole and was repaired will always be a repaired sink hole home and might be mote safe than a home that has not been determined to have sink hole issues and a Chinese drywall repaired home will in my opinion also forever be a repaired Chinese drywall home.
Some buyers don't mind buying a home that had mold and got fixed and/or sink hole home or a prior Chinese drywall home.
As a real estate professional I would always disclose this fact to all clients and if you believe you can hide it than don't forget that any MLS record and other Internet searches will probably find it and/or the neighbors or HOA will have the knowledge.
If my client wants to with held the info than I pass on being involved. If you feel it is all fixed than why hide it?
Records will show it once had an issue and value will reflect that fact.
Personally I would pass on buying it for myself as from what I know a small part of Chinese drywall left can create an issue and most inspectors are good but we all know or have seen the ones who didn't get out of their car and signed off on an inspection and it is not worth my families health to be risked.
In our profession it all comes down to ethical and disclosing and I sworn to do so and will sleep better to disclose this very important fact and would advise you as a seller (if applicable ) in the future to do so to avoid years later to be sued if something comes up.
Maybe a real estate lawyer will advise you that you don't have to disclose it but another lawyer may say..disclose as it will protect you.
I would ask a real estate lawyer to put is advise in writing and I bet you that the lawyer who says that you don't have to disclose it will not be willing to put that advise on paper.
I'm not a lawyer but at house that at one point had a sink hole and was repaired will always be a repaired sink hole home and might be mote safe than a home that has not been determined to have sink hole issues and a Chinese drywall repaired home will in my opinion also forever be a repaired Chinese drywall home.
Some buyers don't mind buying a home that had mold and got fixed and/or sink hole home or a prior Chinese drywall home.
As a real estate professional I would always disclose this fact to all clients and if you believe you can hide it than don't forget that any MLS record and other Internet searches will probably find it and/or the neighbors or HOA will have the knowledge.
If my client wants to with held the info than I pass on being involved. If you feel it is all fixed than why hide it?
Records will show it once had an issue and value will reflect that fact.
Personally I would pass on buying it for myself as from what I know a small part of Chinese drywall left can create an issue and most inspectors are good but we all know or have seen the ones who didn't get out of their car and signed off on an inspection and it is not worth my families health to be risked.
In our profession it all comes down to ethical and disclosing and I sworn to do so and will sleep better to disclose this very important fact and would advise you as a seller (if applicable ) in the future to do so to avoid years later to be sued if something comes up.
Maybe a real estate lawyer will advise you that you don't have to disclose it but another lawyer may say..disclose as it will protect you.
I would ask a real estate lawyer to put is advise in writing and I bet you that the lawyer who says that you don't have to disclose it will not be willing to put that advise on paper.
Thanks for the detailed response.
Just to clarify, it was not my intention to fail to disclose CDW and the remidiation thereof if it is required by law. My inquiry was specifically whether the law mandates such disclosure in the future when subsequent owners decide to sell the house.
The closest comparable situation I can think of is if a house had asbestos and steps were taken to remedy it, would disclosure be mandated that there was a historical problem with asbestos even if it had been taken care of years ago? Quite honestly, I don't know the answer to the question.
You are of course correct that an attorney who opined on remediated CDW not needing to be disclosed in the future will if he/she is asked to give it in writing will likely have various qualifications that would make the opinion almost worthless.
We have not decided whether to proceed with this particular house: clearly, the fact that is has been on the market for as long as it has although they keep dropping the price suggests that many potential buyers just steer clear of the house.
Just to clarify, it was not my intention to fail to disclose CDW and the remidiation thereof if it is required by law. My inquiry was specifically whether the law mandates such disclosure in the future when subsequent owners decide to sell the house.
The closest comparable situation I can think of is if a house had asbestos and steps were taken to remedy it, would disclosure be mandated that there was a historical problem with asbestos even if it had been taken care of years ago? Quite honestly, I don't know the answer to the question.
You are of course correct that an attorney who opined on remediated CDW not needing to be disclosed in the future will if he/she is asked to give it in writing will likely have various qualifications that would make the opinion almost worthless.
We have not decided whether to proceed with this particular house: clearly, the fact that is has been on the market for as long as it has although they keep dropping the price suggests that many potential buyers just steer clear of the house.
Don't let this scare you off completely.
I once bought a house (bank sale) that had black mold. I add the emphasis, because the term seems to evoke some sort of primal fear in people that makes them wan to run away as if their hair was on fire.
Because of the mold, it had been on the market for some time. I brought in a very competent remediation company to inspect the property and offer their opinion as to if it could be successfully remediated. They inspected the house, gave me a quote, I made an offer to the bank, and a few days later I closed on a really nice 4,000 SF custom home for less than half of the market value. Nice.
It cost me roughly $8000 to have the home remediated for the mold. It was quite the operation, but it was done in about a weeks and the home was deemed habitable when the remediation contractor was done.
But wait! That wasn't the end!
Before the contractor got paid, an industrial hygienist came in and took air samples throughout the house. When the nearly 80 page report came back from the industrial hygienist, it showed that the amount of mold spores of varying types were so low as to be statistically insignificant. When I queried them about the presence and amount of various mold spores noted in the report, they said that it was so small they could have been brought in on our clothing during the test (understand that a reading was taken outside as a reference.)
We kept copies of the report, and when we sold the home a few years later we fully disclosed the (former) presence of mold, the remediation, and a copy of the air quality tests.
Didn't even raise an eyebrow by the buyer or their lender.
I personally wouldn't consider buying a house for my family that had Chinese drywalls at any point and was remodeled. The frames inside the house the ones that drywalls are hanging to are still original. These are 100% wood. No one would want to touch framing, so who ever knows how bed these are and what type of long term effect could it cause.
As for disclosing, expecially with drywall, it's pretty official and straight forward disclosure, if you had knowledge of toxic drywalls, it should be disclosed and remedy listed (if any).
And as far as I can tell drywall replacement is done under permit which stays within county database for a very long time.
Let me clarify that I did own a home with Chinese Drywall in Florida. I was involved very much in media coverage, and in lots of news articles and know the problem better than most.
We are just now settling a Class Action lawsuit. How many years later?
I would NEVER ever ever buy a home with Chinese Drywall. It was offered to re mediate but we declined.
What does anyone really know about this. It was handled horrible by the CDC. They dont know to this date what the true story is.
Florida requires a disclosure and I would think anyone would want it disclosed. It is now, and always a tainted house. Nothing will EVER change that. EVER.
It was a nightmare for my family, and chances are a nightmare to the family who had the home previously.
All the homes in the country, why would you want this stigma.
I would like to add, mold is NOT Chinese Drywall. Not even close.
And an attorney told you would not have to be disclosed. VERY interesting advise.
I am a certified contractor, I get calls all the time from people who are looking at one of these homes. This is what I tell them if the decide to move forward buy it bottom price, hire an engineer versed in contaminated drywall have them inspect take photos as the work is being done by a contractor familiar with the protocol! When it is done have the engineer certify it was done correctly in writing seal the doc!
As to the home you are considering to buy, an engineer didn't see the work and won't seal or certify it so walk away from it!
I once bought a house (bank sale) that had black mold. I add the emphasis, because the term seems to evoke some sort of primal fear in people that makes them wan to run away as if their hair was on fire.
Because of the mold, it had been on the market for some time. I brought in a very competent remediation company to inspect the property and offer their opinion as to if it could be successfully remediated. They inspected the house, gave me a quote, I made an offer to the bank, and a few days later I closed on a really nice 4,000 SF custom home for less than half of the market value. Nice.
It cost me roughly $8000 to have the home remediated for the mold. It was quite the operation, but it was done in about a weeks and the home was deemed habitable when the remediation contractor was done.
But wait! That wasn't the end!
Before the contractor got paid, an industrial hygienist came in and took air samples throughout the house. When the nearly 80 page report came back from the industrial hygienist, it showed that the amount of mold spores of varying types were so low as to be statistically insignificant. When I queried them about the presence and amount of various mold spores noted in the report, they said that it was so small they could have been brought in on our clothing during the test (understand that a reading was taken outside as a reference.)
We kept copies of the report, and when we sold the home a few years later we fully disclosed the (former) presence of mold, the remediation, and a copy of the air quality tests.
Didn't even raise an eyebrow by the buyer or their lender.
RM
It all comes down to disclosing!
We had a home we had a difficult time renting out for the owner as the previous tenants prior to our management were evicted after the tenants were arrested for meth. The neighbors who were not the best tenants either (not renting from us) preferred to have the place empty so they were telling every potential tenant that the house was condemned due to a meth lab.
We got the police records and no meth lab was there and "only" (still too much) a little meth was found in the garage but it is very bad for peoples health.
Therefore we advised the owner to get an air sample taken and any other test to see if the house was safe to reside at and that turned out to be the case.
We handed over the full report to the next candidate and immediately rented the property out.
When you disclose the other side has the option to freely decide to move forward or not.
When it comes to Chinese drywall it usually are more homes on the same block or street hat are affected and that will be shows in values.
Unless more info is available about health concerns after it is removed and the long term affects, till than I would be very cautious.
We have seen to many flippers who do a quick fix or better said "band aid" to make as much money on homes like that and walk away. Anyone who buys it will full knowledge assumes the risk.
If I had to summarize the feedback it addresses the following issues:
- Is there a potential health hazard even if a CDW house has been remediated?
- The importance of ensuring the remediation has been done correctly and effectively and documented.
- Whether disclosure is required if the work is done by a qualified contractor is something posters disagree on although public records will show that the house did have a CDW problem. One poster who is a contractor and RE agent said it is not required in a subsequent sale if we did buy it - which is what the RE attorney my agent consulted said.
- If one is buying a house with CDW that has been remediated only do so if the price justifies the "baggage" the house comes with.
We are in two minds about how to proceed. We do like the house but are somewhat wary of the CDW issue both from a standpoint of health issues as well as future issues in selling the house.
There are several houses in this somewhat upscale sub-division that have/had a CDW problem. It seems a heavy burden for those owners to have a major investment with a "cloud" on its value through no fault of theirs.
If I had to summarize the feedback it addresses the following issues:
- Is there a potential health hazard even if a CDW house has been remediated?
- The importance of ensuring the remediation has been done correctly and effectively and documented.
- Whether disclosure is required if the work is done by a qualified contractor is something posters disagree on although public records will show that the house did have a CDW problem. One poster who is a contractor and RE agent said it is not required in a subsequent sale if we did buy it - which is what the RE attorney my agent consulted said.
- If one is buying a house with CDW that has been remediated only do so if the price justifies the "baggage" the house comes with.
We are in two minds about how to proceed. We do like the house but are somewhat wary of the CDW issue both from a standpoint of health issues as well as future issues in selling the house.
There are several houses in this somewhat upscale sub-division that have/had a CDW problem. It seems a heavy burden for those owners to have a major investment with a "cloud" on its value through no fault of theirs.
Another issue that you may not realize is that even if a contractor certifies in writing that it is all done correctly and you get life time warranty on it. How much is the warranty worth if after the first claim the company files for bankruptcy or ends to exist?
We have seen that happen with many sink hole repair companies. Life time warranty and the next incident the warranty is worth less as the company is out of business.
Many buyers have come across pool companies, etc.. going out of business after 2005 and getting stuck with worth less warranties.
Enggirl already mentioned the wood frames and I'm no expert and have no clue if that can be affected but I wouldn't risk it for my family and will tell any client that. If a client wishes to proceed that is up to them as clients don't have to buy what we like or want them to buy and we had buyers buy the weirdest properties that we couldn't even imagine why someone would even consider a risk property but they bought it with open eyes and full disclosure.
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Do not do it
