Rays stadium project is dead (Miami, Tampa: home, school, salary)

[Thundarr457]

Pro Sports are more popular in cities where there is nothing else to do, like Buffalo NY, Green Bay, Oklahoma City, Indianapolis etc. Mostly cold weather cities with limited outdoor activities most of the year. They are also popular in large cities and metro areas with more fans than seats. Tampa has a zillion things to do year round. Baseball has too many games and the are are soooo boring. Football is 8 games plus pre-season and playoffs. I think the 100s of millions can be put to better use than a sports stadium. I recently went to a Florida Gators game up here in Gainesville and its was infinitely better than a NFL game IMHO.

[Daryl_G]

Nah, Nah, Nah, Nah,
Nah, Nah, Nah, Nah,
Hey, Hey, Hey,
Good Bye

The rays are a glorified Minor League team. We get them good and trade them so that can be great somewhere else. Why give them millions when they don't spend it on their product.
The Bucs are already killing me this year, was riding on Fitzmagic before reality set in. I don't have time for the Rays to put together a talented young team then sell them off to the highest bidder.

[minister]

Originally Posted by Thundarr457

Pro Sports are more popular in cities where there is nothing else to do, like Buffalo NY, Green Bay, Oklahoma City, Indianapolis etc. Mostly cold weather cities with limited outdoor activities most of the year. They are also popular in large cities and metro areas with more fans than seats. Tampa has a zillion things to do year round. Baseball has too many games and the are are soooo boring. Football is 8 games plus pre-season and playoffs. I think the 100s of millions can be put to better use than a sports stadium. I recently went to a Florida Gators game up here in Gainesville and its was infinitely better than a NFL game IMHO.

No, pro sports are more popular in cities where the teams are good and the management spends money to show the fan base they're for real.

[jambo101]

Originally Posted by LKJ1988

I am glad fred , let it be dead. Let some other city take them on and let tax payers pay for them in another state nate.

Montreal is looking to get back into baseball, we'll take your team.

[LKJ1988]

Originally Posted by jambo101

Montreal is looking to get back into baseball, we'll take your team.

I would even drive the team up there for free lee.

[Arcenal813]

Originally Posted by jambo101

Montreal is looking to get back into baseball, we'll take your team.

Does that stadium roof still collapse under water and snow pressure?

[kyle19125]

The team deserves a city where there's fan support win or lose unlike the fair weather variety here in Florida. A real sports city in the South like Charlotte for example would be a much better fit and any potential land use can revert back to what Florida does best....strip malls.

[jambo101]

Originally Posted by Arcenal352

Does that stadium roof still collapse under water and snow pressure?

The Big O would not be a suitable venue for the return of baseball to Montreal,a new stadium would have to be built, speculation has it in Griffintown.

[McFrostyJ]

https://portlanddiamondproject.com

[theurbanfiles]

Originally Posted by Thundarr457

Pro Sports are more popular in cities where there is nothing else to do, like Buffalo NY, Green Bay, Oklahoma City, Indianapolis etc. Mostly cold weather cities with limited outdoor activities most of the year. They are also popular in large cities and metro areas with more fans than seats. Tampa has a zillion things to do year round. Baseball has too many games and the are are soooo boring. Football is 8 games plus pre-season and playoffs. I think the 100s of millions can be put to better use than a sports stadium. I recently went to a Florida Gators game up here in Gainesville and its was infinitely better than a NFL game IMHO.

I hear people down here discuss this sometimes and honestly I think it is an unfair and smug claim to make, and quite honestly when made, as a former northerner, I will get defensive. Buffalo, Indianapolis, etc. do not necessarily have "less" to do, they just have different offerings.

For example, you mention limited outdoor activities. Take a look around at the city park/trail system in a Buffalo, or Indianapolis etc., and you will be stunned. There is a massive active culture there regarding sport clubs, hiking, biking, etc. There are also water sports during warm months, but then there are winter sports during the cold weather months, as well as varied other cultural/historic, social/urban, and yes sporting pursuits. In some ways, on levels that people in Tampa don't necessarily have, but perhaps Tampa has different offerings too (beach, water sports, it's own various things around town, and certainly more of a shopping mall culture than up north). I always shake my head when people talk about how people have "so much more", because the reality is outside of a few certain places (and I don't think this area is one of them), many go back and forth in a continuous cycle between shopping outlets, work, church, school, home. Also-while it's true up north winters are a 4-5 month stretch where it's quite cold and people stay in more, it's also true that Florida has at least a 5-6 (and increasingly of late, 7-8) month stretch where in general, people just cycle back and forth between air conditioned malls, cars and houses), which I'd say would balance out. I think people always want what they don't have, and I have talked to not a small number of transplants that say that to them, the summer down here is as bad or worse as northern winters.

Do people from up north generally follow their teams with more fervor? Certainly. But it has less to do with not having things to do, and more to do with the type of loyalty that sports (and other local civic and cultural organizations) inspire on average, up there. More people are from there, and there is more of that sense of loyalty to community then as a result that causes people to participate more and be more "civically engaged". There is actually reports on this as it corresponds to politics, and Minneapolis (which most with sense wouldn't ever accuse of being a boring place) is rated as the most civically engaged city in the country, with Miami actually ranking last on that very same list.

I can't disagree with your last point about CFB being better than the NFL experience, and I DO NOT like when owners rip off cities by making them subsidize super expensive stadium venues. I have gotten more upset with it over time. However, I think it is difficult to deny that a pro sports team definitely adds a visible recognition, marketability for the city, and something great to do for many of it's residents, if this wasn't the case then the present market wouldn't exist. The fact you mention about baseball being 81 games a year helps it's cause, even in the case of the sparsely attended Rays. If you look at Downtown Saint Petersburg (especially along Central Ave now) and pre Tropicana Field (when it was nicknamed God's waiting room), the difference is absolutely massive. I certainly wouldn't say that is the only cause of the renaissance, but I would think even the most ardent critics would find it hard to deny that having probably about 2 million additional visitors to downtown each year because of that stadium venue doesn't have some impact on the visibility and recognition of the city and area, and the resulting vibrancy that is present there now.

I am hoping we will find a more fair way to get a deal done, as the I-4 Corridor especially is becoming a massive market ripe for a team, if it is done right. I never thought that would be the absolute best spot (Ybor) though, because Tampa has a LONG way to go to have the type of public transit necessary for having a venue right there that people can head up to. I actually think somewhere like Exit 10 or 14 of I-4 might be best, similar to Kansas City, as it would allow people from Tampa, Southwest Florida, generally moving along 75, and Central Florida (Lakeland/Orlando) to come in to games, and get in and out easily without overly expensive parking fees. The venue would likely be cheaper then too because the land would be, and as a result of that and money being raised for stadium perhaps being county rather than citywide, it would be less of a burden on taxpayers.

That said, I think if the Rays were in Ybor, and had a somewhat winning product similar to the Lightning, I think that it could cause that neighborhood to develop into the French Quarter-esque day and night destination vibe I think it has the potential to be, much more than it is now.