Public school quality - transplant parent opinions? (Tampa, Palm Harbor: neighborhood, best schools)

[FL_Expert]

Originally Posted by Andre D

MortonR, thanks for the detail again. You're a treasure trove of information!

As school funding is derived from local property taxes, Florida state taxes and Federal funding, here are a few more questions:

1. In a school district like Steinbrenner, for example, approximately what percentage of its budget/funding would be derived from local property taxes? I'm trying to understand the impact of property taxes on a particular school district's funding, assuming state and Federal funding are relatively the same for every high school.

2. When you mention "property tax", is this tax applied to properties within each high school district's geographic boundary to fund that particular high school? If yes, then high school districts with more expensive properties (wealthier people) will result in better funded high schools such as Steinbrenner and Plant.

3. When you say the "District" (with a capital "D") has a long and sordid history, I assume this refers to the Hillsborough County School District at large which would encompass all the high school districts within Hillsborough County. Is this correct?

4. If the above is true, then does the larger county District collect property taxes throughout the county and allocate to the respective schools whereby "richer" school districts like Steinbrenner would receive the property taxes as relates to the actual specific properties in their district?

5. Is there no effort by concerned parents in the county nowadays to vote for more competent Board members? Also, might it be necessary to raise property taxes to better fund the schools? Is money being wasted or is the school system underfunded relative to similar school districts in, say, Pennsylvania or Michigan?

Thanks!

I don’t think it could realistically work that way. If so, Plant would have marble floors, a helipad, Michelin starred chefs, etc while Blake may not have AC.

[FL_Expert]

By the way, I’ve been looking more recently and I really think the Cheval area is a great value for what you’re getting between good neighborhoods and good schools. South Tampa is still the best, but costs wayyyy more for just small improvements. I’ll probably look at both areas when purchasing my next home (and Palm Harbor if I can convince my wife.)

[FL_Expert]

I drove through the Cheval area today and was somewhat disappointed to be honest. It seems safe and the schools are great, but it struck me as the typical bland suburbs. It also felt remote given how far north it is. It isn’t bad, but after visiting I can say I’m no longer interested in this area for a potential future home.

I think the Westchase/Eagles/Waterchase area has quite a bit more to offer overall. If South Tampa is over budget, I’d recommend this area over Cheval.

[Andre D]

What schools service this Westchase/Eagles/Waterchase area?

[FL_Expert]

Originally Posted by Andre D

What schools service this Westchase/Eagles/Waterchase area?

It’s a fairly large area so quite a few schools service it. Waterchase might have the best with Bryant Elementary, Farnell Middle, and Sickles High.

[MortonR]

Originally Posted by Andre D

MortonR, thanks for the detail again. You're a treasure trove of information!

As school funding is derived from local property taxes, Florida state taxes and Federal funding, here are a few more questions:

1. In a school district like Steinbrenner, for example, approximately what percentage of its budget/funding would be derived from local property taxes? I'm trying to understand the impact of property taxes on a particular school district's funding, assuming state and Federal funding are relatively the same for every high school.

2. When you mention "property tax", is this tax applied to properties within each high school district's geographic boundary to fund that particular high school? If yes, then high school districts with more expensive properties (wealthier people) will result in better funded high schools such as Steinbrenner and Plant.

3. When you say the "District" (with a capital "D") has a long and sordid history, I assume this refers to the Hillsborough County School District at large which would encompass all the high school districts within Hillsborough County. Is this correct?

4. If the above is true, then does the larger county District collect property taxes throughout the county and allocate to the respective schools whereby "richer" school districts like Steinbrenner would receive the property taxes as relates to the actual specific properties in their district?

5. Is there no effort by concerned parents in the county nowadays to vote for more competent Board members? Also, might it be necessary to raise property taxes to better fund the schools? Is money being wasted or is the school system underfunded relative to similar school districts in, say, Pennsylvania or Michigan?

Thanks!

Sorry, been in my "happy place" enjoying some down time.

1.) I couldn't say. You could probably do the math somehow by looking at the funding sources for the school district, but understand that funds aren't allocated in that granular of a manner. They're "pooled" more or less at the district level and disbursed based on enrollment. Again, whether it's Steinbrenner or Sulphur Springs, the funding equation is the same.

In other words, even if you live in Steinbrenner's attendance area, your property taxes are going to all of the schools in the district, not just Steinbrenner. Everything goes into a bucket and gets doled out according to formulas established by the State. There may be some Federal program funds here and there, but those are far more likely to be directed at Title 1 schools, not a school like Steinbrenner. And those are based on the number of students that are receiving free and reduced lunches.


2.) See #1.

3.) Yes, I'm referring to Hillsborough County School District. And yes, if it's a public school (not charter) in the County, it's an HCPS school.

4.) No. See #1.

5.) There has never been an effort by the constituents of the County to vote for more competent School Board members. At least not one on a major scale. There are often local efforts for a given seat, as most (not all, several are "at large" seats) of the seats on the Board represent a specific geographical area in the County.

Note that these are my opinions based on my observations, but I suspect if you make the slightest effort to research it, you'll find the School Board and the District administration is totally incompetent when it comes to fiscal management, and has been for decades. Much of this is due to the rampant "old boy" network that's been in place for decades, that rewards incompetence and protects those who exhibit it. An oft-commented running joke when I was working at the District was that when a principal got in trouble for whatever reason they often got promoted or placed on "special assignment" and moved to an area director's office to get them away from students. That or they went "downtown" to the administrative building ("ROSSAC").

Some of the other reasons are:

The "bright shiny object" or "butterfly" mentality. This is when administrators spend money on the latest and greatest, often unproven programs for improving student outcomes, or on consultants who promise such things but rarely deliver.

Lack of long-term fiscal planning, especially when it comes to infrastructure and maintenance. The current tax that got voted in a few years ago is a result of this, because they adopted some really awful systems and designs in the many, many new schools being built during a massive expansion phase in the early 2000s. These became end of life within 10-15 years, and as there was minimal maintenance and no planning for replacements, the hammer fell and fell hard when complete systems were inoperational or unrepairable.

Labor relations. There is no "teacher's union" in the sense of organized labor as many of us think of it in northern states. (Teacher's) unions were busted in Florida by legislative means years ago, when the teachers went on strike and crippled the schools. The District maintains a really lousy relationship with the bargaining unit (HCTA) who is so poorly represented by the teachers themselves that it was nearly decertified a few years ago because it almost went below the 50% threshold of representation. In my opinion, the dues it collects are a waste of money and a drain on people's finances, as the services they offer the teachers are weak and ineffective. This is reflected in the minimal number of members they have. And since Florida is a "right to work" state, you're not obligated to be a member to obtain the benefits of collective bargaining. In other words, why give them money when you'll get the same thing an HCTA member will get and pay nothing?

Hope that helps...

RM

[sinatras]

To the OP: You are very lucky to have someone as knowledgeable as RM giving you this info.

[MortonR]

Originally Posted by sinatras

To the OP: You are very lucky to have someone as knowledgeable as RM giving you this info.

Gee, thanks! <blush>

Do understand that my opinions color my responses to some extent. I enjoyed the more than a decade of work I did at the District, and found it to be one of the most rewarding things I’ve done. That being said, I came in with a fair amount of experience and the ability to observe and react to the highly political environment that exists there, which helped me immensely. It’s a tough place to navigate, and you have to be quite savvy in identifying who’s wagon you want to hitch yourself to, so to speak, to progress and be successful.

Read or research the “Peter Principle”. It’s a textbook description of the school district.

RM

[Andre D]

Thanks a lot. Interesting stuff.
So... essentially... Steinbrenner's funding per student should not be much different than any other school in the district.
Yet, Steinbrenner is deemed to be arguably the best in the district or at least much better than most other schools.
Better funding (e.g., teacher pay, facilities, etc.) has nothing to do with it? That would be unusual for really any school.

[FL_Expert]

Originally Posted by Andre D

Thanks a lot. Interesting stuff.
So... essentially... Steinbrenner's funding per student should not be much different than any other school in the district.
Yet, Steinbrenner is deemed to be arguably the best in the district or at least much better than most other schools.
Better funding (e.g., teacher pay, facilities, etc.) has nothing to do with it? That would be unusual for really any school.

Steinbrenner is arguably #2. Plant is pretty clearly #1 in the Bay Area.