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Old 11-06-2009, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Soon to be next door to the Everglades
38 posts, read 117,367 times
Reputation: 31

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiltznucs View Post
Actually the main component of drywall is gypsum, which is a byproduct of coal burning power plants. Guess who supplies much of China's sulfur laden coal?

That's right, the good ole USA does. EPA restrictions dont allow the burning of high sulfur coal here in the states, so we ship it overseas where restrictions arent so tight. The high sulfur coal was burned in China and the resultant high sulfur gypsum was made into the very toxic drywall I'm having removed from my home right now.

So to your comment, in a manner of speaking we sold our garbage to the Chinese who cleverly sold it right back to us. So for all intents and purposes, we did buy American. How about that for irony?
Um... No, Gypsum is NOT a 'byproduct' of Coal Burning, but a naturally occurring Element. You are probably thinking of Fly Ash, which I believe has been found in some CDW.
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:28 PM
 
265 posts, read 891,537 times
Reputation: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wack-a-Mole View Post
Um... No, Gypsum is NOT a 'byproduct' of Coal Burning, but a naturally occurring Element. You are probably thinking of Fly Ash, which I believe has been found in some CDW.
Actually no, with a minimal amount of research you'd know the sulfur oxide produced in coal burning plants is mixed with a slurry of limestone in the smokestack. The process is known as "scrubbing" and is critical in reducing the sulfur emissions of fossil fuel burning plants. The final product of limestone and sulfur oxide mix is in fact gypsum. Heres a link to the locations of National Gypsum's(the largest producer of gypsum products in the U.S.) plants, all of which are located near coal burning power plants. Thanks for playing...

http://www.nationalgypsum.com/about/.../location.aspx

Last edited by wiltznucs; 11-06-2009 at 07:36 PM..
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Old 11-12-2009, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Orlando Suburbs
228 posts, read 479,751 times
Reputation: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiltznucs View Post
Actually no, with a minimal amount of research you'd know the sulfur oxide produced in coal burning plants is mixed with a slurry of limestone in the smokestack. The process is known as "scrubbing" and is critical in reducing the sulfur emissions of fossil fuel burning plants. The final product of limestone and sulfur oxide mix is in fact gypsum. Heres a link to the locations of National Gypsum's(the largest producer of gypsum products in the U.S.) plants, all of which are located near coal burning power plants. Thanks for playing...

National Gypsum Company: Plant Locations
You better do a little more research.....Gypsum is a natural mineral. The process you are trying to describe is for synthetic gypsum.
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Old 11-13-2009, 07:20 AM
 
265 posts, read 891,537 times
Reputation: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by FL Developer View Post
You better do a little more research.....Gypsum is a natural mineral. The process you are trying to describe is for synthetic gypsum.
But gypsum nonetheless, and the preferred component of Chinese and American drywall manufacturers.
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:28 PM
 
2,292 posts, read 768,233 times
Reputation: 1153
Here are some notes from my inspector from the Symposium in Tampa.

  • Chinese Drywall off gasses 10 times more at 95 degrees than @ 74 degrees.
  • It will take 20 to 100 years for CD to stop off gassing.
  • Corrosion on copper will continue unless you remove scale. It does not go further up the wire or pipe but rather gets deeper. Once the copper is pitted, the pits allow for more corrosion.
  • False chemistry includes iron pyrites/strontium (there is some in both in domestic and CD, but CD has more.), fly ash, phosphogypsom, sulfuric acid, and bacteria. These theories of the cause of the corrosion were all discounted.
  • There are 3 true factories in China and 200 very small shops making drywall. Two factories are French and claim they did not ship to the US. The other is Knauf. I have seen a number of non-knauf brands. I don’t know if they were made by Knauf as a private label for an exporter by the small shops.
  • There are records of small amounts of CD being imported to the US going back to 1996 and to Tampa starting 1999.
  • 60% of the DW manufactured in the US is made from synthetic gypsum from smoke stack scrubbers which costs $3.5 per ton while mined gypsum is $7.50 per ton.
  • DW has been made in the US since 1894 and has been the primary wall material since 1955. DW has been made in China for only 20 years, obviously not long enough for QC.
  • Knauf only imported half inch regular DW.
  • There were over 800 hundred air tests performed by the various involved governmental agencies. The best equipment was used and here in Florida the tests were driven immediately to a lab in Lakeland. Over 90% of the test Failed to detect any of the 3 chemicals of concern. The 3 chemicals though to cause the corrosion are below the ability of the equipment to detect which is 1.5 PPB.
  • Go to Drywallresponse.gov for the CDC lab report.
  • It appears that the impurity in the CD is elemental sulfur, S8. This is the type of sulfur found in a child’s chemistry set. It is a stable crystal. It does of gas sulfur ions, S2, S3 and S4. The sulfur ions combine with carbon monoxide and other gases in the air to produce a host of chemicals. There are 3 chemicals (The 3 Chemicals) thought to be involved in the corrosion. The amount of elemental sulfur varied greatly in the 7 CDC Chinese Drywall samples they tested. S8 varied from less that 7.56 to 182 mg./kg. They also found sulfur in the paper.
  • The following are descriptions of The 3 Chemicals.
  • Hydrogen sulfide is a naturally occurring gas. Among the H2S sources are the bacteria in ones intestines and mouth. It is also found in well water, reclaimed irrigation, domestic water that has been sitting in pipes, sewers and wetlands. The odor level is 1 to 13 PPB. This is the rotten egg smell.
  • Carbon Disulfide is also naturally occurring in marshy areas. CS2 smells like sweet like chloroform when pure and like rotten cabbage when it is not pure.
  • Carbonyl Sulfide is an odorless gas. COS is the most abundant sulfur gas in the atmosphere.
  • It is thought these 3 chemicals create acetic acid that then corrodes the copper. Acetic acid is the acid in vinegar.
  • Formaldehyde levels were higher in domestic drywall homes than the Chinese Drywall homes. Formaldehyde could contribute to the health symptoms home owners are reported.
  • All the scientist agreed that they could not find a connection between CD and human health. The amounts of The 3 Chemicals are very low. The 3 Chemicals also do not build up in ones body.
  • The molecular sizes of The 3 Chemicals are too small to create an allergic reaction.
  • Having said that, The 3 Chemicals may cause a temporary irritation to the upper respiratory tract to sensitive persons.
  • The answer to “If the CD does that to the coils what is it doing to me” was answered. The body handles acidic compounds all the time and without problems. It was noted that if you put a piece of copper in with the cooking brussel sprouts the let it sit for a few hours, the brussel sprouts will turn the copper black. Or put a penny in a pop bottle. Sea air is very corrosive. We use acetic acid, vinegar, in our salads.
  • There were test done to determine if there was cross contamination. They tested the various wood products and the CBS block from a remediated home against the same materials from a big box store. There were more of The 3 Chemicals in the store bought components.
  • There was no new information on funding for the remediation. Bill Nelson said he did ask President Obama to address the issue while he was in China.


  • There were no written hand outs at the Symposium. These are hand written notes
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Valley of the Sun
196 posts, read 540,535 times
Reputation: 230
Consumer Product Safety Commission released a report today. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/bu...l?ref=business
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Old 11-26-2009, 01:07 AM
 
5,366 posts, read 5,506,373 times
Reputation: 3329
Me and my boyfriend just found out our house in Hyde Park is made of this filth. Not only has it caused over 2000 dollars in air conditioning repairs, but it has made our house unsellable.

Honestly, who is going to by a house made with defective drywall? Its already paid for, otherwise we would just walk out on the thing. My developer isn't going to be happy when I call him after the holidays and slap him with a lawsuit!
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Old 12-09-2009, 11:41 AM
 
2,292 posts, read 768,233 times
Reputation: 1153
Florida Insurance Commissioner Chairs December 7 NAIC Chinese Drywall Hearing - Resource Library - Colodny, Fass, Talenfeld, Karlinsky & Abate


Florida Insurance Commissioner Chairs December 7 NAIC Chinese Drywall Hearing

Date Published: 12-08-2009

Florida Insurance Commissioner Kevin McCarty chaired a public hearing held by the National Association of Insurance Commissioners ("NAIC") Catastrophe Insurance Working Group of the Property and Casualty Insurance Committee on December 7, 2009 as part of the NAIC 2009 Winter Meeting in San Francisco.
The purpose of the hearing was to gather information regarding any implications to regulators and insurers that may arise as result of the alleged defective Chinese drywall installed in homes across the nation.
To view the hearing notice, click here. To view the materials discussed during the hearing, click here.

The hearing focused on the following issues:
  • The scope of the problem and what jurisdictions are involved;
  • Whether the complaints that have been filed with the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission ("CPSC") constitutes a complete inventory of the problem;
  • Whether homeowners' insurance policies provide coverage for property damage claims related to the installation of defective Chinese drywall;
  • Whether homeowners' insurance policies provide coverage for health claims related to the installation of defective Chinese drywall;
  • To what extent product liability or construction defect insurance coverage is available for the installation of defective Chinese drywall; and
  • What the health implications are for defective Chinese drywall and who will be held responsible for the costs associated with health-related claims.
The following is a brief recap of discussions that took place during the hearing.


NAIC Regulatory Division Director Eric Nordman reported the following facts about Chinese drywall (which can be viewed on page nine of the meeting materials packet):
  • Over 550 million pounds of Chinese drywall was imported to the United States between 2004 and 2007 and subsequently may have been installed in over 100,000 homes nationwide. The CPSC has recorded over 2,091 reports of defective drywall in 32 states.
  • The most common reported problem suggesting the presence of Chinese drywall in a home is the smell of rotten eggs.
    • Resulting property damage claims have included air conditioning equipment failure; pipe, coil and wire corrosion; damage to furniture, fixtures and jewelry.
    • Bodily injury claims have included respiratory problems such as sinus infections; headaches, persistent cough and bloody noses; asthma attacks and fatigue.
  • Claim costs are estimated to include home repairs ($8 to $10 billion), health-related costs (which can be substantial) and legal fees ($5 to $10 billion).
    • Estimated indirect costs, such as loss of use and diminished home values ($2 to $5 billion), are also a factor.
    • To date, the estimated total cost for Chinese drywall claims could be from $15 to $25 billion.
Mr. Nordman reported that, in a highly unusual development since the hearing announcement on November 13, property owners affected by Chinese drywall have sent a number of letters to the NAIC that contain very personal complaints about problems related to Chinese drywall. The affected homeowners, who are seeking remedies, shared stories that include being forced to abandon their property due to health issues and details on corrosion and strong odors that presumably exist because of the presence of Chinese drywall.

It was noted that the CPSC was invited to participate in this hearing, but cited the late notice as its reason for not attending.
According to a November 23 CPSC press statement (pages 11-13 of the meeting materials packet), CPSC studies show a strong correlation for homes that contain Chinese drywall and the presence of hydrogen sulfide and corroded metals.
Mississippi Commissioner of Insurance Mike Chaney said that he believes his state filed the first state Chinese drywall insurance claim.
Property and Casualty Insurers Association of America Director of Policy and Analysis David Kodama gave a presentation on the "causation riddle," a term signifying that there has been no demonstrated "causation" between Chinese drywall and reported related health and corrosion problems.
During the presentation, Mr. Kodama acknowledged that damage associated with Chinese drywall will likely not be covered under homeowners' insurance policies.
Using the analogy of toxic mold-related claims to illustrate his points, he said that it is essential to remember that an insurance policy is a legal contract and not a construction warranty. Because a "correlation," but not causation, of damage from Chinese drywall has been found, Mr. Kodama said that progress toward a solution only will occur once the "various links in the chain of causation" concerning Chinese drywall problems are identified.
United Policyholders co-founder and Executive Director Amy Bach discussed the effects of Chinese drywall on both residential and commercial properties and policyholders. The estimated cost to remediate homes with Chinese drywall is around $100,000--or one-third of the cost of a home.

Ms. Bach offered the following suggestions:
  • Property owners immediately should commence the safe removal of Chinese drywall and begin taking immediate mitigation measures. Then, if at all, reimbursement should be sought under an insurance policy, or an action should be filed against the various entities in the Chinese drywall chain of distribution.
  • Regulators should work with insurance carriers on a protocol for addressing claims for properties affected with Chinese drywall.
Florida Insurance Commissioner Kevin McCarty said it was "indisputable" that the Chinese drywall utilized to rebuild homes that were affected by the 2004/2005 hurricanes is "defective."


Charles Miller of the Insurance Law Center testified on the matter, during which he identified two main questions regarding the insurance industry's approach to Chinese drywall claims:
  1. Are insurers properly applying the policies to the claims; and
  2. Are insurers properly investigating the claims?
Mr. Miller also posed the question of what role insurance regulators can take to ensure that insurers are properly investigating claims and applying the terms of policies.

He added that the pollution and latent defect exclusions are important provisions in homeowners insurance policies.
The hearing was then adjourned.
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Old 12-09-2009, 07:20 PM
 
265 posts, read 891,537 times
Reputation: 251
Good info, keep it coming.

My home is going through remediation as we speak. A couple of lessons learned, first off the companies doing the remediation are crooks. They say they will have the home tested for remnant drywall and sulfur contamination before beginning the rebuild. This is not so, be sure to demand to see the test results first or they will simply strip the home, wait a week and start to rebuild

Another problem is having no access to your home. Thats right, even though your paying the note your home lock is changed and you will not have access. The builder says this is for safety and liability.

With stripping the home some structural items will be damaged, particularly the studs. My builder proceeded to rewire the home and hang duct work from these damaged studs. The builder states they changed them after I pointed it out, but to be honest I really dont believe them.

Additionally, expect all your appliances and fixtures to be stolen. All of mine were left in the home to be inspected and possibly reused. A week later, they were all gone. Washer, dryer, freezer, fridge, range, oven, microwave, ceiling fans, and light fixtures... all gone. The builder said they filed a police report, little do they no I inquired about it and found no such report was filed. Why? The truth is the builder prefers the items disappear. Storing these items for evidence until a lawsuit is settled costs money, money the builder would rather not spend. Now we get to haggle out new replacement vs diminished value on the items corroded by the drywall. You should clarify that all items be replaced with an as new comparable replacement or paid full as new market value for the items.

I've been out of my home since September, the builder indicates it may be as late as March before were back in.
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Old 12-09-2009, 08:36 PM
 
Location: state of enlightenment
2,404 posts, read 4,831,898 times
Reputation: 2481
I'm looking into this system that claims to remove the gases without removing the drywall. Chinese drywall solution, RISS System, RISS Drywall, sulfur gas contaminants
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