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Old 03-10-2010, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Lincoln County Road or Armageddon
4,329 posts, read 6,017,133 times
Reputation: 5953

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Florida's economy is based on smoke and mirrors. The bulk of the economic engine is not based on anything concrete and durable-it's based on abstract "things" and services-tourism and perpetual, unregulated population expansion. The moment there's any drop off of tourists or housing slows, the whole house of cards collapses. Sure, housing is produced at a sickening rate, but hopefully that's not going to go on forever. Florida has never produced much of a tangible nature and has relied on a service economy-doing stuff for people they don't want to do. It's hard to export services, more of a local thing. For the most part, tourism and service jobs pay squat, but if enough people are employed, Florida will stumble along. When these start to decline, there's nothing to fall back on.
This may be more of a national problem-the manufacturing base is disappearing along with the decent, middle class wages. I can just picture a cabal of capitalists gleefully anticipating a permanent working underclass to exploit, free from Unions and with millions of unemployed willing to do anything and accept any wage just to have a job.
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:46 PM
 
357 posts, read 725,994 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
We all survived 1975 so we shall survive this one as well.
Yes, some will survive, others will not. One important factor being overlooked is that unemployment numbers were calculated completely differently than they are today. I would estimate that real unemployment in the bay area is closer to 25-30%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by algia View Post
WHAT will it take for Tampa (or FL) to start having jobs again?
People just don't get it. The jobs are not coming back. Not without major political upheaval and restructuring, import tariffs, and possible civil unrest. So many of the jobs have moved overseas. For some reason, so many thought that beginning January 1st, 2010 things would start to turn around and the jobs would magically come back. The only thing magical that happened is Lucky Charms added a new magically delicious marshmallow shape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_tino View Post
I have written quotes from contractors for manual labor projects that are being bid at $100-200/hour. That is not a typo. They just don't get it.
Apparently they are still finding some people who will pay that much, though, so they are not desperate enough to lower their prices. The Tampa Bay area while high in unemployment has a lot of people with quite a bit of disposable income at their hands. I'm not talking about the retired snowbirds, although they contribute to the mucked up, flimsy tourist economy we have. But younger wealthy people too. I alluded to this in the first post I ever made on this forum, yet was chided and accused of trolling and defaming the holy name of Florida!

So while you see a lot of unemployed, 2-paychecks from being evicted folks here, you also see a large population of unemployed, wealthy people. Well, I can't say they're all unemployed -- the drug trade, porn, and organized crime industries can be grueling work!

Last edited by ozlo; 03-10-2010 at 06:48 PM.. Reason: Adding information.
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:36 AM
 
26,791 posts, read 41,485,894 times
Reputation: 14953
Quote:
Originally Posted by algia View Post
OK, here's the deal........(as I see it of course)

First off, why would you assume that a contractor's time is not worth $100/hr? or other services for that matter? would you go to work for minimum wage? and also afford a home? let's see, how much is he/she spending on gas getting to and from places? that alone is worth $100/hr......

Then, how do you expect that people will afford to buy homes when they get paid nothing........? how do you expect anyone to afford anything without being paid a certain amount of money? you can't pay someone $7 an hour these days and expect them to buy a $200,000 home....what can you really afford to buy with that wage exactly?

Prices have INCREASED since this recession started but salaries have not, as I stated in an older post the same administrative job that was advertised at $9 an hour back in 2001 is STILL advertised at $9 an hour NOW in 2010!!! when prices have doubled since 2001, gas in Fort Lauderdale back then, in 2001, was like $1.22 to $1.28 max......... THAT makes no sense and will sure keep people from being able to afford to buy homes......

We are so hung up on the fact that "the market hasn't bottomed out yet", or that "the unemployment is so high" etc but we choose not to pay people money they deserve for the WORK THEY DO, not to hire people and at the same time expect that home prices will go back up so the loser's of 2006/2007 can build some equity? It is a catch 22 for sure.....of course you think $100/hr is a lot, when you're paid $7 an hour! DUH! if you were paid a wage you deserved for your work, that should not have come as a surprise........compare jobs, do you think a football players salary is justified? I don't think so.......spending millions on someone playing ball is a WASTE, I am very sorry but it really is...also check this out if you want to talk about wasting money:


""Americans waste more than $15 billion a year on unused gym memberships. Recent studies estimate that of the roughly 40 million Americans who pay for the gym each year, nearly 80% don't go. And with an average cost of $480 per year, that's an awful lot of dough for absolutely nothing."
you could have hired 4 contractors with that money!

$480 A YEAR! I am sorry but that is a major waste!
Could you imagine if all that money was spend on teachers and school programs instead?
You want more jobs to come soon...you want people to get higher wages....very nice

But you don't want to buy because you don't want to deal with repairs, etc...basically you don't want to spent the money your self, but to pay others for it...that is what is called "socialism of the worst kind"...spread other people money around, but not yours!

That is why I hate all that so called "being good and wanting other people to get more or socialism"...as long as it is others who pay for it...

You are probable not an employer either...
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:57 AM
 
5,453 posts, read 8,186,524 times
Reputation: 2141
"B" You can't read my friend.....

WE rent and have always been fixing things UP around our rentals enlisting help when help was needed from professionals....I said it is a WASTE to pay millions for someone to PLAY BALL...who is "serviced" BY THAT?????
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Old 03-11-2010, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 14,045,792 times
Reputation: 6028
Excellent post. Well stated.



Quote:
Originally Posted by algia View Post
OK, here's the deal........(as I see it of course)

First off, why would you assume that a contractor's time is not worth $100/hr? or other services for that matter? would you go to work for minimum wage? and also afford a home? let's see, how much is he/she spending on gas getting to and from places? that alone is worth $100/hr......

Then, how do you expect that people will afford to buy homes when they get paid nothing........? how do you expect anyone to afford anything without being paid a certain amount of money? you can't pay someone $7 an hour these days and expect them to buy a $200,000 home....what can you really afford to buy with that wage exactly?

Prices have INCREASED since this recession started but salaries have not, as I stated in an older post the same administrative job that was advertised at $9 an hour back in 2001 is STILL advertised at $9 an hour NOW in 2010!!! when prices have doubled since 2001, gas in Fort Lauderdale back then, in 2001, was like $1.22 to $1.28 max......... THAT makes no sense and will sure keep people from being able to afford to buy homes......

We are so hung up on the fact that "the market hasn't bottomed out yet", or that "the unemployment is so high" etc but we choose not to pay people money they deserve for the WORK THEY DO, not to hire people and at the same time expect that home prices will go back up so the loser's of 2006/2007 can build some equity? It is a catch 22 for sure.....of course you think $100/hr is a lot, when you're paid $7 an hour! DUH! if you were paid a wage you deserved for your work, that should not have come as a surprise........compare jobs, do you think a football players salary is justified? I don't think so.......spending millions on someone playing ball is a WASTE, I am very sorry but it really is...also check this out if you want to talk about wasting money:


""Americans waste more than $15 billion a year on unused gym memberships. Recent studies estimate that of the roughly 40 million Americans who pay for the gym each year, nearly 80% don't go. And with an average cost of $480 per year, that's an awful lot of dough for absolutely nothing." you could have hired 4 contractors with that money!

$480 A YEAR! I am sorry but that is a major waste!
Could you imagine if all that money was spend on teachers and school programs instead?
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Old 03-11-2010, 07:55 AM
 
1,106 posts, read 2,048,065 times
Reputation: 954
Well, they didn't get anything from me, as I ended up doing the work myself. Supply and demand is still in effect, and if they don't drop their prices enough to spur demand, the massive unemployment rates (especially among contractors) will continue.

Let me reiterate: this was not for skilled labor, as I am paying well for structural engineers, etc, as they provide a service that is needed and is worth every penny (what's the cost of a collapsed wall?). The quotes I was getting was for raw, unskilled labor. Digging fenceposts and trenches, putting up fence, moving building materials, etc.

I have no sympathy for contractors going hungry if they aren't willing to drop their prices in times like these, just to stay busy.

$0/hour is a heck of a lot less than $100-200. Let 'em starve!
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:03 AM
 
5,453 posts, read 8,186,524 times
Reputation: 2141
IF I was an employer my employees would LOVE ME FOREVER because I would make sure they all have the health insurance they need not the one that suits my needs.....as we're not all the same nor have the same health problems/needs ..........................and are paid based on the degree of difficulty of their work & performance because you can have someone highly degree'd who is unproductive and have someone self taught that is GREAT at what he/she does.....these people "working for me" "making ME PROFITS deserve to be treated like human beings not garbage and then expected to give their 100%! THAT IS NOT socialism, communism or whatever else......THAT IS JUST COMMON SENSE DUDE!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
You want more jobs to come soon...you want people to get higher wages....very nice

But you don't want to buy because you don't want to deal with repairs, etc...basically you don't want to spent the money your self, but to pay others for it...that is what is called "socialism of the worst kind"...spread other people money around, but not yours!

That is why I hate all that so called "being good and wanting other people to get more or socialism"...as long as it is others who pay for it...

You are probable not an employer either...
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:08 AM
 
5,453 posts, read 8,186,524 times
Reputation: 2141
I am sorry, but what makes you think "unskilled work" is worthless? if it's so unskilled then why not dig the hole yourself???? why should someone put that effort for free? that someone has to put dinner on the table too! it is really insulting that in this society some think that because a job doesn't require a 4 year degree it's not worth being paid for the effort that's being put in!!!!!!! WOW!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_tino View Post
Well, they didn't get anything from me, as I ended up doing the work myself. Supply and demand is still in effect, and if they don't drop their prices enough to spur demand, the massive unemployment rates (especially among contractors) will continue.

Let me reiterate: this was not for skilled labor, as I am paying well for structural engineers, etc, as they provide a service that is needed and is worth every penny (what's the cost of a collapsed wall?). The quotes I was getting was for raw, unskilled labor. Digging fenceposts and trenches, putting up fence, moving building materials, etc.

I have no sympathy for contractors going hungry if they aren't willing to drop their prices in times like these, just to stay busy.

$0/hour is a heck of a lot less than $100-200. Let 'em starve!
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:13 AM
 
26,791 posts, read 41,485,894 times
Reputation: 14953
Quote:
Originally Posted by algia View Post
IF I was an employer my employees would LOVE ME FOREVER because I would make sure they all have the health insurance they need not the one that suits my needs.....as we're not all the same nor have the same health problems/needs ..........................and are paid based on the degree of difficulty of their work & performance because you can have someone highly degree'd who is unproductive and have someone self taught that is GREAT at what he/she does.....these people "working for me" "making ME PROFITS deserve to be treated like human beings not garbage and then expected to give their 100%! THAT IS NOT socialism, communism or whatever else......THAT IS JUST COMMON SENSE DUDE!!!!!!!!!!
So nice to have all these social remarks that are too good to be true...

Being the best employer needs to be proven in reality. Stating all that you would do but will never are going to do is what we hear all the time...specially with money from others, like this president and administration have been trying to do...as long as nobody is touching their money which they put off shore....
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Tampa, Fl
4,091 posts, read 5,084,712 times
Reputation: 3393
Quote:
Originally Posted by algia View Post
I am sorry, but what makes you think "unskilled work" is worthless? if it's so unskilled then why not dig the hole yourself???? why should someone put that effort for free? that someone has to put dinner on the table too! it is really insulting that in this society some think that because a job doesn't require a 4 year degree it's not worth being paid for the effort that's being put in!!!!!!! WOW!
What they said was the price didn't drop to a reasonable one, so, they didn't pay anything and the service didn't get done. If they need a paycheck that badly, they can drop their prices to more affordable ones to accommodate the situation. Right now is the best time to be a consumer, because while the businesses keep laying people off... You know, because the "economy" is hurting them (), we have a reason to stop supporting them. A mass boycott of any company right now would seriously hurt them. My focus is on Wal-Mart though, not contractors. Keep in mind, according to multiple reports detailed in Wal-Mart: The High Cost Of Low Prices, taxes go up when Wal-Mart moves in because they don't pay a liveable salary and the employees can't afford health insurance, therefore most end up on Wellfare and Medicaid. I wish some of the people in here had the experience I did working for Wal-Mart.... You wouldn't think twice about putting companies out of business after that... Nor would you shop there.
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