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Old 03-11-2010, 01:52 PM
 
1,500 posts, read 2,917,105 times
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As to personal economies:

My handiman in Tampa comes with a helper. I pay $34/hour for the two. I pay my one guy in Lauderdale to work on that house $28/hour. This is more than fair wage for labor which requires no professional certification nor any qualifications, really, other than enough experience and skill to satify the guy who's paying them.

They do excellent work for the money. Both guys are homeowners. Both double income (wife of one works, girlfriend of the other works). The guy in Lauderdale recently picked up a foreclosure just blocks away from me. The guy in Tampa also lives blocks away from me up here but sadly bought during the bubble, not understanding finances all that well. Still he is an honorable man, determined to hold onto the house & pay his mortgage even though he is currently underwater on it. Over the years, he won't do as well as I'll do on my Tampa property, as I bought below the theoretical bottom if such a thing can even be determined anymore, but he'll be ok in that he'll build up enough equity for a healthy & secure reverse mortgage into his old age if he so desires.

I bought my first house, after having saved a proper down payment, when I was earning less than $20/hour in the early 1990s. I bought well under the medium value for the area & the country, only able to afford what I could and not to out-stretch my means. Not everyone gets to buy a medium priced house as their first home purchase and it is awfully greedy, or just plain stupid, to think everyone deserves that, as the rest of us have paid our dues. Anyway, my substandard house was in a town known for drug problems (I had a drug rehab center around the corner from me) and there was "white flight" at the time. But I did my research and determined that this area would come back into its own one day. I joined city efforts to improve the neighborhood and fixed up my own property. Within time my neighbors followed suit. During the bubble, we became so successful in our efforts that we got written up by the New York Times. Even if I sell today, at the bottom of the bottom, I'll still do better than 8% annual appreciation on my initial purchase price.

I'm no financial genius, certainly, nor did I ever command a lot of money in the workplace as I decided on my second career in publishing which does not pay well, but simply privileged me to work in letters. But if I could make a success of home ownership, even at my low wages, even in this terrible economy, then most others can too. Having money is less about what you make or how you make it and more about what you spend and how you spend it.

As to Florida's economy:

Florida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of Florida in 2007 was $734.5 billion. Its GDP is the fourth largest economy in the United States.The major contributors to the state's gross output in 2007 were general services, financial services, trade, transportation and public utilities, manufacturing and construction respectively."

Also, per Florida :: Florida Business Resource for Business Development and Relocation
http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy30/housingcrashsurvivor/fl-gdp-profile.jpg (broken link)
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Old 03-11-2010, 03:43 PM
 
Location: Lincoln County Road or Armageddon
4,322 posts, read 5,992,448 times
Reputation: 5936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
First of all, people who work in Walmart, etc. get paid "peanuts" because they have no marketable skills besides operating a cash register or stocking shelves. Secondly the profit margin in retail stores such as al-Mart is thin. Same with supermarkets.

If people want a "living wage" then they should have applied themselves earlier in life and learned more than operating a cash register or stocking shelves, which is not a bad thing, if that is what you want to do for a living.

On the other hand, I see a lot of walmart workers with many years of service. They are usually front desk people, managers, supervisors.
Surely they make more than "peanuts".

Some people don't shop Walmart due to their convictions, but do they think that the other store they are doing biz in is any better?

Americans have become adapted to the thinking that the Employer owes them more than a pay check. They are wrong. They are not owed vacations, sick days, personal days, insurance benefits, etc. They are entitled to a clean and safe work place and a wage. That is all.
Glad I don't work for you.

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration". Abraham Lincoln

I can only imagine what names he'd be called if he was President today.
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:18 PM
 
96 posts, read 232,492 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaKash View Post
Florida's unemployment problem is really simple. The economy in Florida is based off of tourism. Guess what, tourism is down. I continue to think that the highest unemployment rates are at the entry level job positions, it seems Florida has tons of entry level jobs (retail, hotel, restaurant, entertainment, etc). I am sure this is based on your tourism industry. Those that are unemployed in Florida need to use the extra time they have to learn new skills in different industries. Of course this doesn't guarantee that you will get a job, but I would like to think it would increase your chances.

I don't know. I am really looking forward to moving down in July, but if it continues to get worse and worse I may just have to head to my divisions headquarters in Austin where they currently have one of the best economies in the nation.



For a state like Florida that depends on tourism for their economy, Tampa "ain't" doin all that bad. Wanted to test your theory and see which city/area currently has more open job opportunities, Tampa FL versus Austin TX, just for "funzies" at a quick glance. So went to monster and searched for all job opportunities in Tampa FL then Austin TX. Tamp FL area currently has 2,463 job openings including some Business Analyst opportunities. Austin TX area currently has 1,431 job openings. Tampa can't be all that bad regardless of the increasing FL unemployment rate. Now granted not an exact science but those differences do raise an eyebrow
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:35 PM
 
357 posts, read 724,172 times
Reputation: 343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Island_Guy View Post
For a state like Florida that depends on tourism for their economy, Tampa "ain't" doin all that bad. Wanted to test your theory and see which city/area currently has more open job opportunities, Tampa FL versus Austin TX, just for "funzies" at a quick glance. So went to monster and searched for all job opportunities in Tampa FL then Austin TX. Tamp FL area currently has 2,463 job openings including some Business Analyst opportunities. Austin TX area currently has 1,431 job openings. Tampa can't be all that bad regardless of the increasing FL unemployment rate. Now granted not an exact science but those differences do raise an eyebrow
I'll wager Tampa also has a lot more scammers filling up Monster and temp agencies desperately posting duplicate fake ads to keep themselves afloat.
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:45 PM
 
96 posts, read 232,492 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozlo View Post
I'll wager Tampa also has a lot more scammers filling up Monster and temp agencies desperately posting duplicate fake ads to keep themselves afloat.
If it was careerbuilder I might agree with you. But then again Austin TX would have just as much spam if it was careerbuilder. Monster does a much better job, way better, not only screening postings but also duplicates. I always tell folks to stay away from CB, Ladders, Craigslist and Dice and stick with Monster when searching for jobs using the internet.
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Old 03-11-2010, 10:30 PM
 
1,500 posts, read 2,917,105 times
Reputation: 1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Island_Guy View Post
For a state like Florida that depends on tourism for their economy, Tampa "ain't" doin all that bad. Wanted to test your theory and see which city/area currently has more open job opportunities, Tampa FL versus Austin TX, just for "funzies" at a quick glance. So went to monster and searched for all job opportunities in Tampa FL then Austin TX. Tamp FL area currently has 2,463 job openings including some Business Analyst opportunities. Austin TX area currently has 1,431 job openings. Tampa can't be all that bad regardless of the increasing FL unemployment rate. Now granted not an exact science but those differences do raise an eyebrow
Not exact? Not even close.

Here are the facts:

Firstly, for perspective on your comment as to tourism in Florida, see the above & this below mentioned graphic showing what % of Florida's GDP consists of leisure & hospitality.

http://i774.photobucket.com/albums/yy30/housingcrashsurvivor/fl-gdp-profiletourism.jpg (broken link)

Now as to unemployment rates Tampa v Austin, please see Unemployment Rates for Metropolitan Areas

which shows that as of Dec 2009

Austin-Round Rock Tx unemployment rate was 6.9% (#63 of 372 statistical areas), however,

Tampa-St Pete-Clearwater FL's unemployment rate was 12.4% (#307 of 372 statistical areas)

So you can pop into careerbuilders or wherever tampa 30 mile radius 30 day criteria and find total 3040 jobs advertised
or you can pop in the same criteria for Austin and find only 1,973 jobs so it might look like there are more jobs here. But now look at the populations of each geographic area. In Tampa you find a civilian workforce of 1304.7 (I assume that is in thousands) but in Austin you'll find a work force of only 903.2 (figures per BLS web site referred to above).

So while my unscientific method utilizing career builder found 35% more jobs offered in Tampa, that tells us nothing because not only does it show so in an area with a 31% larger workforce but it does not tell us anything as to the condition of how many within those populations actually need jobs. That is measured by the unemployment numbers of which Tampa is ~45% worse-off than Austin as shown above.

In other words, even if you currently found only 100 jobs in Austin yet all of 1,000 jobs advertised in Tampa, it does not mean that Tampa is in 10x's better shape than Austin because Tampa's situation is still worse if Austin originally only lost, say, 1,000 jobs while Tampa had lost, say, 100,000 of them. So knowing only the number of jobs currently available, without knowing relative populations nor the damage already done raises no eyebrow at all.

Further reading:

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2010/mar...-funk-deepens/
"There are 1.1 million unemployed Floridians and just under 200,000 advertised jobs in the state, Rust said. That means there are 5.7 job seekers for every advertised position."

http://www.brenhambanner.com/articles/2010/03/06/news/news03.txt (broken link)
"AUSTIN - Total nonagricultural employment in Texas increased by 30,300 jobs in January, according to the Texas Workforce Commission.

Texas has gained nearly 38,000 jobs in the last four months, while the nation lost 295,000 over the same four-month period."

Last edited by housingcrashsurvivor; 03-11-2010 at 11:58 PM.. Reason: added in other words
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Old 03-12-2010, 07:23 PM
 
96 posts, read 232,492 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by housingcrashsurvivor View Post
Not exact? Not even close.

Here are the facts:

Firstly, for perspective on your comment as to tourism in Florida, see the above & this below mentioned graphic showing what % of Florida's GDP consists of leisure & hospitality.



Now as to unemployment rates Tampa v Austin, please see Unemployment Rates for Metropolitan Areas

which shows that as of Dec 2009

Austin-Round Rock Tx unemployment rate was 6.9% (#63 of 372 statistical areas), however,

Tampa-St Pete-Clearwater FL's unemployment rate was 12.4% (#307 of 372 statistical areas)

So you can pop into careerbuilders or wherever tampa 30 mile radius 30 day criteria and find total 3040 jobs advertised
or you can pop in the same criteria for Austin and find only 1,973 jobs so it might look like there are more jobs here. But now look at the populations of each geographic area. In Tampa you find a civilian workforce of 1304.7 (I assume that is in thousands) but in Austin you'll find a work force of only 903.2 (figures per BLS web site referred to above).

So while my unscientific method utilizing career builder found 35% more jobs offered in Tampa, that tells us nothing because not only does it show so in an area with a 31% larger workforce but it does not tell us anything as to the condition of how many within those populations actually need jobs. That is measured by the unemployment numbers of which Tampa is ~45% worse-off than Austin as shown above.

In other words, even if you currently found only 100 jobs in Austin yet all of 1,000 jobs advertised in Tampa, it does not mean that Tampa is in 10x's better shape than Austin because Tampa's situation is still worse if Austin originally only lost, say, 1,000 jobs while Tampa had lost, say, 100,000 of them. So knowing only the number of jobs currently available, without knowing relative populations nor the damage already done raises no eyebrow at all.

Further reading:

Area jobless funk deepens
"There are 1.1 million unemployed Floridians and just under 200,000 advertised jobs in the state, Rust said. That means there are 5.7 job seekers for every advertised position."

Brenham Banner-Press > Archives > News > Number of jobs rises by 30,300 during January (http://www.brenhambanner.com/articles/2010/03/06/news/news03.txt - broken link)
"AUSTIN - Total nonagricultural employment in Texas increased by 30,300 jobs in January, according to the Texas Workforce Commission.

Texas has gained nearly 38,000 jobs in the last four months, while the nation lost 295,000 over the same four-month period."
Hey Genius, good work Im proud of ya but cmon I know that ! No matter how much you twist it, my focus wasn't on unemployment rate but current job opportunities in Tampa FL and Austin TX based on what I consider a very reputable job search web site, monster, not career builder, (genius). I'm sure the poor real estate economy and the over valued Tampa homes had alot to do with the current state of Tampa. I never said Tampa's economy depended on tourism, just quoting your bud.
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Old 03-13-2010, 12:02 AM
 
1,500 posts, read 2,917,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Island_Guy View Post
Hey Genius, good work Im proud of ya but cmon I know that ! No matter how much you twist it, my focus wasn't on unemployment rate but current job opportunities in Tampa FL and Austin TX based on what I consider a very reputable job search web site, monster, not career builder, (genius)....
Perhaps if you spent a bit less energy being pernicious by calling me genius, twice, and instead put forth a little more effort into understanding a topic, especially when someone bothers to explain it to you, you’d be able to grasp what the unemployment rate actually means. You can't just throw away the unemployment rate to discuss job opportunities.

I haven’t twisted a thing but because of your attitude, this will be my last attempt to kindly explain to you in a straightforward fashion: The higher the unemployment rate, by definition of unemployment rate, the less job opportunities exist, regardless of how many jobs you find advertised (and I don't care what source you use to find them). If there were more job opportunities, then the unemployment rate would decrease.

Say you find 3040 jobs in Tampa but only 1,973 jobs in Austin. This does not mean that there are more job opportunties in Tampa than there are in Austin. Why? Because for one thing, the populations are not equal. Tampa area has a workforce of 1,304,700 civilians while Austin area has 903,200. So even if all else was equal. Then you have 35% more job openings advertised but in an area that has 30% more workers.

So even if you only take into account the number of workers in an area without considering the economies of each area, you don’t even have the 35% more job openings you might have thought you have, but only 5% more job openings, at quick glance, based upon ratios of populations to jobs available.

But it isn’t even 5% better in Tampa; it is worse in Tampa. Why? Because the unemployment rate (which you seem to insist on casually tossing away) is real. You can not just throw it away. What it is telling you is that jobs have been lost which used to exist in an area. The people are still there, but the jobs are gone. In fact, the unemployment rates of both Tampa & Austin tell us that there are more unemployed workers here than there are there.

Here it is on paper. Do not fault me for using the careerbuilder numbers. They don’t matter. This is just to illustrate a point (also I’m using the Dec 2009 BLS numbers, though, as shown in the title of this thread, it is even worse here now).

Tampa has 1,304,700 workers and 12.4% unemployment which means that 161,782 people are out of work and going after those 3,040 jobs advertised on some web site. So for everyone who gets on of those Tampa jobs, 53 Tampa workers go home jobless.

Austin has 903,200 workers and 6.9% unemployment which means that 62,320 people are out of work and going after those 1,973 jobs (per the same web site). So for everyone who gets one of those Austin jobs, 31 Austin workers go home jobless.

If 53 go home jobless in Tampa and 31 go home jobless in Austin then Tampa’s job opportunities are 42% worse than they are Austin's, even though you found more jobs here on your online search.

And just to see how math actually did work, for funzies, as those numbers just landed as they did by plugging in the available empirical information, you’ll notice that in the earlier post I said, that Tampa is 45% worse off than Austin just based upon the unemployment rates.

So what you say, that there are more “job opportunities” here is not true, rather what is true is that there are less opportunities here, because the competition here is greater and the economy has been harder hit.

Last edited by housingcrashsurvivor; 03-13-2010 at 12:11 AM..
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Old 03-13-2010, 04:09 AM
 
792 posts, read 2,084,680 times
Reputation: 810
Quote:
Originally Posted by algia View Post
OK, I am going to ask the same question I asked somewhere else.... WHAT will it take for Tampa (or FL) to start having jobs again? and also, what will it take for Tampa to appreciate quality and stop asking people to work for free or pay miserable wages?

Jobs are not coming back until the middle class living standards in America, represent the same living standards in countries such as Mexico, Honduras, China, Vietnam. Places like this is where most of our manufacturing base was outsourced to. It has been proven that a service based economy like we have does not work in the long run. You absolutely have to have a manufacturing base to have a middle class. Corporate greed combined with political influence has destroyed manufacturing in this country. Thanks NAFTA.

So, long story short. They are not coming back until it is cost effective to make stuff here again. That won't happen without tarriffs or hyperinflation. Pick your poison.



I would say at the moment, we are on track to hyperinflate the currency due to enormous amount debt we owe. Stimulus, wars, unfunded liabilities like social security and medicare. It is completely unsustainable. Default through massive inflation seems to be the path most serious economists see us heading toward.

Instead of things getting better. Things are going to get a lot worse for Americans. The cost of everything you consume is going to go much, much higher. It is all centered on oil, which at the moment is just over $80/barrel. As inflation begins to take hold, oil is going to rise dramatically in price. As it rises, your living standards will fall.

The cost of consumables like food, gas, clothing, etc. will go up. I keep noticing the slow, steady climb of prices at the grocery store and the gas pump. I'm sure everyone else has too.


So the good news is that jobs will be coming back. The bad news is that they are going to pay a fraction of what they once did. Let me clarify this point. You might make more money per hour for the job you once did, but those dollars are going to have much lower purchasing power.

cheers
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Old 03-13-2010, 05:46 AM
 
26,766 posts, read 41,292,811 times
Reputation: 14907
Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_tino View Post
You apparently post a lot on this forum, but your reading comprehension must be at a pre-school level. Show me where I said "free".

Read my post again.

I offered the unskilled work for bid.

I received offers at $100-200/hour. Not free.

I DID THE WORK MYSELF.

They received nothing. To follow your reasoning, yes, they and their family can starve for all I care. If they don't want to drop their prices to a reasonable level, they will continue to lay people off. That's not my problem.
I was shocked to get some of the quotes I got for work in the last 2 years. I remodeled my bathroom and got estimates so far from each other and went with the cheapest who also came across as the most reliable. I never regretted it.

Last month one of my tenants moved out and thought he didn't have to do anything then taking his stuff out so I others doing the work at the tenants expense. I had handyman coming over for repairs the tenant never mentioned and I needed the work to be done fast. Unfortunately many of them can't remember that they made appointments for the work to do after they tell you how much it will cost....too bad for them because I'm not sitting and waiting for the 3rd time they promiss something...

In the end I by not waiting I saved money (which I have to get back from the tenant...) by just going to Home Depot and ordering the items there which I expected to be more expensive but it wasn't. So Home Depot got a lot of my money instead of the local businesses who only after the repairs had taken place, called me to come and take care of it.

Next time I know where to go and who to have the job done, and the bad thing for these local companies is, that they don't think further than the one job...people do speak about good and bad experiences and word spread around if you do a good job...in the end it can mean more people lay off if they don't keep them self to their appointments and don't even call to reschedule or say they are sorry for not showing up while you are sitting there and wasting your time.
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