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Sorry, but Monster is filled with "employment agency" non existent job ads...
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Originally Posted by Island_Guy
If it was careerbuilder I might agree with you. But then again Austin TX would have just as much spam if it was careerbuilder. Monster does a much better job, way better, not only screening postings but also duplicates. I always tell folks to stay away from CB, Ladders, Craigslist and Dice and stick with Monster when searching for jobs using the internet.
Next time I know where to go and who to have the job done, and the bad thing for these local companies is, that they don't think further than the one job...
That's why they keep laying workers off. They don't get it.
They also don't understand that the cheaper the price, the more work will be made available. When I get a licensed electrician who is between jobs for $20 an hour, I can find much more work for him to do than a contracting company that charges $100+ an hour for a 2-man crew and a truck.
chi_tino: You obviously don't own your own business.......I am saying that because I do and I hate to tell you but there are costs attached to owning a business, any business, it's not free for the owner to own a business, we don't get electricity for free, nor gas for our cars, nor office supplies, nor garden tools etc etc etc, some of these are perishable some break and need to be fixed, some need constant maintenance ....food, gas etc etc prices have increased for business owners too, not just for employees of corporate America!
THE VERY REASON PEOPLE ARE GETTING LAID OFF IS BECAUSE BUSINESSES NEED TO STAY AFLOAT, BECAUSE FOR SOME REASON NOW EVERYONE EXPECTS TO GET EVERYTHING FOR FREE! AND IF ALL THE PEOPLE CHEAP OUT AND DON'T PAY LIKE YOU, HOW ARE THESE BUSINESSES GOING TO STAY ALIVE, THRIVE ETC?
REDUCING PRICES FOR YOU, "THE CLIENT' MEANS WE LAY OFF SOMEONE ELSE BECAUSE WE DON'T GET PAID ENOUGH TO SUPPORT THAT EMPLOYEE!
THAT IS WHY STORES/SERVICES HAVE SALES FROM TIME TO TIME.....if the prices are lowered and lowered there will not be any "sales", "discounts" EVER, it becomes free and it is NOT FREE to manufacturer, buy and sale, rent retail space etc etc etc etc.
Half of a real estate agent's commission (a good one) could easily go onto marketing materials for the next house...where do you think the money comes to design and buy those 6x9 postcards? do you think business owners own money printing machines?????????????? Your entire perspective is really INSULTING to every business out there in Tampa and World for that matter!
"They also don't understand that the cheaper the price, the more work will be made available"
That is NOT TRUE, because that will not even break someone even, let alone make them any profits! sorry.........I am speaking from experience on this one! The more jobs, the more gas consumed, the more supplies needed!
Wow, a lot of you guys know absolutely nothing about construction. I currently work for a construction management firm. For a simply laborer he typical rate is about $22/hr. But I also have to pay other fringe costs to the government (unemployment, insurance, workers comp, etc.) which brings that total close to $50/hr. Now when bidding a project I use the $50/hr rate but I later put in cost for overhead. If someone wanted a simple quote by the hour I wouldn't be able to add in this overhead which is what keeps the business afloat. So if I were putting in a bid on an hourly basis the hourly rate would be around $100/hr. Now there is some flexibility in that an we do reduce it to get certain jobs. But it makes no sense for me to send guys out to work if I'm going to make LESS than what I have to pay my guys to work. Why would I PAY money out of the company's pocket to help you. In that case it would be better for us to simply not do the work. You want me to bill you $1,000 but then I have to turn around pay a total of $1,500 in cost???
Of course if you do the work with a couple of buddies then it's going to be cheaper. And depending on how you do it, it is also illegal and very dangerous. If a friend is coming over to "help" you then its not a fair comparison as you are not actually paying for anything. It's like saying a maid is too expensive because you're kids clean for free. Now if you were actually "hiring" your friends to do the work then you would have all the legal issues. How much are you paying them, certain wage restrictions apply, what about insurance, etc. What happens when your buddy gets hurt and then sues you because he doesn't have insurance and he got hurt working on the job?
$100 for a two man crew in a truck is a very good price and close to what the company actually pays for them. It's just that to you that price can't compete with illegal labor. You can go to home depot and find a bunch of people out front that will definitely be willing to work for a lot less. The problem is I can't legally hire those people and legally pay them the same wages.
Construction, accounting, photography, auto repairs etc etc etc etc are not commodities, just because you have a lot to choose from that doesn't make them commodities, just because you can go to Home Depot and do it yourself it still doesn't turn construction into a commodity.......just because you have a camera that also doesn't make you a photographer........etc the list is too long........I hope you get the point.......
What we need is more people being independent and doing things for themselves anyway.
Some guys are way over the going rate for their services and must have a hard time getting hired if people are getting 3 or 4 quotes on the same project.
Those are services. Services cost money. If you can't do it yourself, you hire someone who can.
It's better when you can vs. hiring out the work, but so goes life.
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Originally Posted by algia
Construction, accounting, photography, auto repairs etc etc etc etc are not commodities, just because you have a lot to choose from that doesn't make them commodities, just because you can go to Home Depot and do it yourself it still doesn't turn construction into a commodity.......just because you have a camera that also doesn't make you a photographer........etc the list is too long........I hope you get the point.......
Wow, a lot of you guys know absolutely nothing about construction. I currently work for a construction management firm. For a simply laborer he typical rate is about $22/hr. But I also have to pay other fringe costs to the government (unemployment, insurance, workers comp, etc.) which brings that total close to $50/hr. Now when bidding a project I use the $50/hr rate but I later put in cost for overhead. If someone wanted a simple quote by the hour I wouldn't be able to add in this overhead which is what keeps the business afloat. So if I were putting in a bid on an hourly basis the hourly rate would be around $100/hr....
We are not building new houses or putting on additions; we are trying to maintain our personal residences or maybe we've got an income property or two which needs occassional repair. Not everyone can afford to hire a contruction management firm to bring in a contractor to sub out the work to my neighbor at $100/hour when I can hire him directly and he doesn't even want to work for the sub who works for the contractor who is supervised by the construction managing firm. And yes, I realize the CM can also be the GC or the design/builder or the whatever. My point is that we do indeed understand the cost increases which come from all the value added layers of buying retail.
At the commercial level or even major renovations at the residential level, certainly that's the way to go.
However, and especially in this economy, when I've got work which is relatively minimal but maybe just beyond my capabilities or time constraints as a homeowner, and a neighbor who needs the work, who is underwater on his mortgage (which would effect my home value should he walk), who has been recommended by other neighbors, who enjoys working on his own and who does a good job for a much better price than what you can offer me with all your overhead, then guess where my hard earned money's going? So we do know a little about construction and we also know a little about economics too.
Because, ya know what, if we all paid your prices for even the smallest jobs, not only would my neighbor go without pay, not only would he lose his home, but I'd have to raise the rents as well when he came looking for a place to live. And so the economy, including home repairs, function at different levels. Always did, always will. Try regulating that to death and it will be the death of this fragile economy.
Housingcrashsurvivor has it right -- we would all be bankrupt if we were paying $50-100 an hour for everything. Sure, gardening can be "dangerous", but who (besides algia) is going to pay someone $150 to cut their lawn every week? Frying food can be "dangerous", but I'm not paying $25 for an order of french fries.
"They also don't understand that the cheaper the price, the more work will be made available" Your entire perspective is really INSULTING to every business out there in Tampa and World for that matter!
At $20 an hour, I will let someone do work that I CAN do, but will let someone else do for me so that I will have more free time. At $100/hour, that incentive vanishes. Your ignorance of the concept of price elasticity is why unemployment is so high in the construction industry.
Housingcrashsurvivor has it right -- we would all be bankrupt if we were paying $50-100 an hour for everything. Sure, gardening can be "dangerous", but who (besides algia) is going to pay someone $150 to cut their lawn every week? Frying food can be "dangerous", but I'm not paying $25 for an order of french fries.
"They also don't understand that the cheaper the price, the more work will be made available" Your entire perspective is really INSULTING to every business out there in Tampa and World for that matter!
At $20 an hour, I will let someone do work that I CAN do, but will let someone else do for me so that I will have more free time. At $100/hour, that incentive vanishes. Your ignorance of the concept of price elasticity is why unemployment is so high in the construction industry.
Again while you are a prudent homeowner making repairs in an economical fashion you know nothing about construction. Cutting the lawn and a laborer are two different jobs. It would be silly to hire a laborer to cut your grass.
You seem to think that $100/hr for two men and a truck is a bad deal. You can look at the home depot and see that a simple truck rented per hour is $20. So basically they're charging you $40 per person. For a simply laborer with no experience the base rate is about $20. Now this person would not be able to work in any other trade (carpentry, plumber, etc). There are laws against that. Then on top of the $20 that I HAVE to pay the laborer I HAVE to also pay the government fringe benefits (workers comp, insurance, etc.) that would bring the total to $40 per person per hour. This is the bare minimum I could LEGALLY pay someone to come to your house and simply dig a ditch. It doesn't matter how large of company I have.
So while you see a guy who makes $20/hr he actually cost me $40/hr. Which is why when I have him work on my own house I tell him to meet me at my house on the weekends and I pay him $20/hr cash. He makes more than he does during the day because there are no taxes taken out and I pay less. The problem is the person who we a cheating is the government by not paying any taxes, workers comp, social sec, etc. So while I'm willing to take that risk for him to work on my own house I'm not going to send him to your house to do it and risk something going wrong where there is more liability and risk.
As a homeowner when times are good or bad if you want to save money you should always do things that don't require skill yourself. Demolition, clean-up, etc. Your argument has nothing to do with the economy. The construction industry right now accounts for most of the job losses. Many companies are taking on projects at cost just to keep as many people working as possible. But we can't just start working illegally because the economy is down.
I'm sure if companies could pay less than minimum wage many companies could actually hire more people. "Instead of paying one 16 year old $8 to get the carts I'll simply hire two at $4, that way I'll pay the same and get more work done." It simply doesn't work that way.
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