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Old 03-16-2010, 10:48 AM
 
5,453 posts, read 8,122,591 times
Reputation: 2141

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Every business will increase prices proportionally with the rest of the economy......how do you expect a business to give you the 2000 price when their expenses are paid at 2010 prices! makes no sense at all.....I am pretty sure that of this was YOUR field of work/business you wouldn't be calling it "lousy"!

It was NOT the people who physically built a home or did it's landscape who brought this economy down!!!!!!! It was predator lenders & realtors, none of which charge per hour for their services!!!!!!!!!

Mind you, half if not more than your "634,700" were not even Floridians, nor permanent Tampa residents/companies....they were part of builders/contractors/architects/landscapers from other states who came here thinking they'll make a killing.......some did, some left empty handed.....some are unemployed now! some went back where they came from and are probably employed again......some got stuck here trying to restart their business etc, etc the list goes on and on......

IF you owned a business indeed, you wouldn't be this ignorant about others especially since it's not YOUR field of work and you are not familiar with how that particular business is ran!

PS: "price elasticity" is part of "occasional sales/discounts" for services provided.....maybe if you become frequent client your discounts may appear more often....
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Old 03-16-2010, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Beach
3,380 posts, read 8,181,879 times
Reputation: 2930
Thought this was interesting. There is much more info in the link provided. If you go to the link search using your browser for Florida.

Although Florida is obviously not doing the best with unemployment, it is also not in dead last.

Regional and State Employment and Unemployment Summary

The largest over-the-month decreases in
employment occurred in Missouri and Ohio (-12,800 each), followed by
Kentucky (-11,800), New Jersey (-9,100), Florida (-6,100), and Nevada
(-5,700)

State Unemployment (Seasonally Adjusted)
The rates in California and South Carolina set new
series highs, as did the rates in three other states: Florida (11.9
percent)
, Georgia (10.4 percent), and North Carolina (11.1 percent).
The rate in the District of Columbia (12.0 percent) also set a new
series high.

Six states reported statistically significant over-the-month
unemployment rate increases in January. New Mexico experienced the
largest of these (+0.3 percentage point), followed by California,
Florida, Idaho, and Utah (+0.2 point each) and Maryland (+0.1 point).

West Virginia and Nevada recorded the largest jobless rate increases
from January 2009 (+3.5 and +3.4 percentage points, respectively). Six
other states reported rate increases of 3.0 percentage points or more:
Florida, Illinois, and Wyoming (+3.2 points each), Rhode Island (+3.1
points), and Alabama and Michigan (+3.0 points each).

Over the year, 48 states experienced statistically significant changes
in employment, all of which were decreases. The largest statistically
significant job losses occurred in California (-701,700), Florida
(-303,200), Texas (-287,800), Ohio (-222,000), and Illinois (-219,700).
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Old 03-16-2010, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,931,422 times
Reputation: 6028
With 48 states showing significant changes and looking at the numbers the spread gets smaller after California. Which two states are making out like bandits?
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Old 03-16-2010, 11:06 PM
 
1,500 posts, read 2,906,093 times
Reputation: 1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaKash View Post
...Although Florida is obviously not doing the best with unemployment, it is also not in dead last.
And even better news, Hillsborough County is apparently not the worst within the state that is not dead last. However, all this optimism is underwelming.

I was thinking most of the unemployment numbers here must come from construction as so many moved here to partake in the boom, so I checked Labor Market Statistics which shows (I believe this is as of Jan 2010):

Florida’s Nonagricultural Employment by Industry (Seasonally Adjusted)

 The number of jobs in Florida is 7,144,300, down 303,200 in January 2010 compared to a year ago.The industry losing the most jobs is construction(-90,700 jobs, -20.4 percent).

 Other industries losing jobs over the year include: trade, transportation, and utilities (-56,600 jobs, -3.7 percent); professional and business services (-44,900 jobs, -4.2 percent); manufacturing (-42,200 jobs, -12.2 percent); leisure and hospitality (-39,700 jobs, -4.3 percent); financial activities (-27,800 jobs, -5.6 percent); information (-13,700 jobs, -9.2 percent); other services (-8,400 jobs, -2.6 percent); and total government (-2,500 jobs, -0.2 percent).

Private education and health services (+23,600 jobs, +2.2 percent) is the only sector gaining jobs among Florida’s major industries. Most of the increase is due to health care and social assistance (+19,500 jobs, +2.1 percent), primarily in ambulatory health care services. Private education increased by 4,100 jobs (+2.9 percent) over the year.

 In January 2010, Liberty County has the state’s lowest unemployment rate (7.5 percent), followed by Monroe County (8.2 percent), Leon County (8.5 percent), and Alachua County (8.7 percent). Many of the counties with the lowest unemployment rates are those with relatively high proportions of government employment.

 Flagler County (17.1 percent) has the highest unemployment rate in Florida in January 2010, followed by Hernando (15.7 percent); Marion County (15.4 percent); Hardee and St. Lucie counties (14.9 percent); and Citrus County (14.6 percent).

The counties with the highest unemployment rates in the state experienced continued weakness in construction, manufacturing, and financial activities. There were 57 Florida counties with double-digit unemployment rates in January, up from 51 the previous month.

Area Nonagricultural Employment (Not Seasonally Adjusted)

All metro areas in the state except one lost jobs over the year in January 2010. The Panama City-Lynn Haven-Panama City Beach metro area gained 200 jobs (+0.3 percent) over the year. Metro areas with the steepest declines include Sebastian-Vero Beach (-7.3 percent, -3,400 jobs); Naples-Marco Island (-6.2 percent, -7,200 jobs); Ocala (-6.0 percent, -5,700 jobs); and Cape Coral-Ft. Myers (-5.6 percent, -11,700 jobs).

And here is a file showing a projection of fastest growing occupations through 2017 for Hillsborough County
http://www.labormarketinfo.com/libra...ns/p17wr15.xls

Last edited by housingcrashsurvivor; 03-16-2010 at 11:20 PM..
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Old 03-17-2010, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,931,422 times
Reputation: 6028
I don't care where you go in the U.S.A. today, construction is down and out. It takes investment to do construction. There is no investment going on due a depression. Florida just happens to be a state where huge amounts of outside (foreign and domestic) investment has been strong. Now with the depression, there is no investment thus no construction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by housingcrashsurvivor View Post
And even better news, Hillsborough County is apparently not the worst within the state that is not dead last. However, all this optimism is underwelming.

I was thinking most of the unemployment numbers here must come from construction as so many moved here to partake in the boom, so I checked Labor Market Statistics which shows (I believe this is as of Jan 2010):

Florida’s Nonagricultural Employment by Industry (Seasonally Adjusted)

 The number of jobs in Florida is 7,144,300, down 303,200 in January 2010 compared to a year ago.The industry losing the most jobs is construction(-90,700 jobs, -20.4 percent).

 Other industries losing jobs over the year include: trade, transportation, and utilities (-56,600 jobs, -3.7 percent); professional and business services (-44,900 jobs, -4.2 percent); manufacturing (-42,200 jobs, -12.2 percent); leisure and hospitality (-39,700 jobs, -4.3 percent); financial activities (-27,800 jobs, -5.6 percent); information (-13,700 jobs, -9.2 percent); other services (-8,400 jobs, -2.6 percent); and total government (-2,500 jobs, -0.2 percent).

Private education and health services (+23,600 jobs, +2.2 percent) is the only sector gaining jobs among Florida’s major industries. Most of the increase is due to health care and social assistance (+19,500 jobs, +2.1 percent), primarily in ambulatory health care services. Private education increased by 4,100 jobs (+2.9 percent) over the year.

 In January 2010, Liberty County has the state’s lowest unemployment rate (7.5 percent), followed by Monroe County (8.2 percent), Leon County (8.5 percent), and Alachua County (8.7 percent). Many of the counties with the lowest unemployment rates are those with relatively high proportions of government employment.

 Flagler County (17.1 percent) has the highest unemployment rate in Florida in January 2010, followed by Hernando (15.7 percent); Marion County (15.4 percent); Hardee and St. Lucie counties (14.9 percent); and Citrus County (14.6 percent).

The counties with the highest unemployment rates in the state experienced continued weakness in construction, manufacturing, and financial activities. There were 57 Florida counties with double-digit unemployment rates in January, up from 51 the previous month.

Area Nonagricultural Employment (Not Seasonally Adjusted)

All metro areas in the state except one lost jobs over the year in January 2010. The Panama City-Lynn Haven-Panama City Beach metro area gained 200 jobs (+0.3 percent) over the year. Metro areas with the steepest declines include Sebastian-Vero Beach (-7.3 percent, -3,400 jobs); Naples-Marco Island (-6.2 percent, -7,200 jobs); Ocala (-6.0 percent, -5,700 jobs); and Cape Coral-Ft. Myers (-5.6 percent, -11,700 jobs).

And here is a file showing a projection of fastest growing occupations through 2017 for Hillsborough County
http://www.labormarketinfo.com/libra...ns/p17wr15.xls
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Old 03-17-2010, 08:54 AM
 
1,106 posts, read 2,034,040 times
Reputation: 954
The complaint that "our costs have gone up too much" is a poor one when you are a service provider trying to add value to your clients.

Many projects that are economical to perform at one price are no longer economical to perform at a higher price. This is especially true for energy efficiency improvements. For example, paying somebody $50-100 an hour to lay insulation and caulk around windows cancels out the savings and makes the entire project uneconomic.

I received an estimate of work from one of those "energy efficiency" companies that perform home energy audits. While their projects could have saved money, over 100% of the savings were extracted by the cost of their labor. One quote was to install solar window film for $3,000 throughout the house (which would have taken less than a day for a team of two guys). I independently sourced the cost of the window film at about $400, so I will allow the reader to calculate the hourly labor rate.

[The company also mentioned that I should do this because 30% of the cost of the film would come to me in a tax credit. Taking $120 off the bill does not make the project much more economic.]

One poster on this board mentioned that they offer a few percent discount if someone wants to negotiate. When you are priced about 200-300% higher than what it takes to make the project work, a few percent isn't going to hack it.
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Old 03-17-2010, 09:20 AM
 
1,500 posts, read 2,906,093 times
Reputation: 1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring Hillian View Post
I don't care where you go in the U.S.A. today, construction is down and out. It takes investment to do construction. There is no investment going on due a depression. Florida just happens to be a state where huge amounts of outside (foreign and domestic) investment has been strong. Now with the depression, there is no investment thus no construction.
I’m so glad that you don’t care. It takes investment to make candy bars too. As construction fulfills the basic need of housing, second most important after we fulfill our basic need of nourishment, it would likely be about the second largest industry after agriculture and therefore a large part of any economy.

My point was to show how disproportionately large a part it is of Florida’s economy, which has depended upon growth to pay its way, instead of upon sustainable industry. What was your point in quoting me, aside from taking the opportunity to tell us how much you don’t care?

Construction unemployment jumps again notes that “Overall declines in construction activity, however, have cost 2.2 million construction workers their jobs since industry employment peaked in June 2006, a 28% drop, Simonson noted. Construction has accounted for 1,936,000 of the 8,425,000 nonfarm payroll job losses since the recession began in December 2007, or 23% of the total, even though the industry employs only 4.3% of all workers,”

The stats I quoted in my previous post show that yoy as of Jan 2010 construction losses accounted for 20% of Florida’s unemployment figures which was the point of my post. This seemed significant to me because when you look at other states’ unemployment figures, it becomes ever more clear how dependent Florida's economy is upon the construction industry. For instance according to this georgia RELEASE: in Georgia, “For 2009, 12.4 percent of all unemployed workers were previously employed in the construction industry.”

Clearly, what makes up 20% of our unemployed, per the quote of mine which you felt the need to bash with your negativity, is significantly more than what makes up 12.4% of their unemployment, being a difference of 38% (12.4 to 20).

And so my point stands on its own merit, regardless of what you do or do not care about.
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Old 03-17-2010, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Spring Hill Florida
12,135 posts, read 13,931,422 times
Reputation: 6028
Since my opening sentence was disturbing to you, I will reword it to say:

No matter where you live in the U.S.A.

Construction did their job. We have plenty of housing available.

Florida's economy has been tourism and agriculture for decades. Only in the past 20 or so years did the housing boom begin and end.

In this world people have to be flexible. Just because you were in construction at one time does not mean you will stay there for your entire work career. Flexibility is the key. If you are in construction and have been sitting on your butt for 2 or 3 years then you are a problem to yourself.

Get over the construction down turn. Go on to something else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by housingcrashsurvivor View Post
I’m so glad that you don’t care. It takes investment to make candy bars too. As construction fulfills the basic need of housing, second most important after we fulfill our basic need of nourishment, it would likely be about the second largest industry after agriculture and therefore a large part of any economy.

My point was to show how disproportionately large a part it is of Florida’s economy, which has depended upon growth to pay its way, instead of upon sustainable industry. What was your point in quoting me, aside from taking the opportunity to tell us how much you don’t care?

Construction unemployment jumps again notes that “Overall declines in construction activity, however, have cost 2.2 million construction workers their jobs since industry employment peaked in June 2006, a 28% drop, Simonson noted. Construction has accounted for 1,936,000 of the 8,425,000 nonfarm payroll job losses since the recession began in December 2007, or 23% of the total, even though the industry employs only 4.3% of all workers,”

The stats I quoted in my previous post show that yoy as of Jan 2010 construction losses accounted for 20% of Florida’s unemployment figures which was the point of my post. This seemed significant to me because when you look at other states’ unemployment figures, it becomes ever more clear how dependent Florida's economy is upon the construction industry. For instance according to this georgia RELEASE: in Georgia, “For 2009, 12.4 percent of all unemployed workers were previously employed in the construction industry.”

Clearly, what makes up 20% of our unemployed, per the quote of mine which you felt the need to bash with your negativity, is significantly more than what makes up 12.4% of their unemployment, being a difference of 38% (12.4 to 20).

And so my point stands on its own merit, regardless of what you do or do not care about.
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:07 AM
 
5,453 posts, read 8,122,591 times
Reputation: 2141
Really? did the gas and food prices have not gone up for you? cool! r u on welfare?

Anyway, I see a lot of "do it yourself and hope for the best" in your future.....you do sound like you want to own slaves again!

When the gas prices will go down along with food and everything else on shelves, services will lower theirs prices too......your expectations are unrealistic!

I am not sure if you noticed this but since the housing bubble exploded, prices for EVERYTHING went UP! I haven't seen 1 thing go down....other than home prices which was expected....a can of Lysol is $6.99 @ Publix! WHAT? what does that DO? does it cook?, digs holes? the price should be $2 for that.....but it's not........so go ahead and call their manufacturer and tell them it's too expensive and see what they say......I can do it for you and then post their answer here........seriously!

This thread has pushed the limits of common sense and is very insulting to all business owners out there not to mention employees.....

Businesses are present for PROFIT! not loss, people don't go into business for themselves to slave around people like you! they are here to do what you can't do!
Services, accounting, photography, architecture, interior design, landscaping etc etc don't equal slavery! considering how expensive everything has become these days $10 bucks an hour doesn't cut it well anymore......did you know that now $40,000/year is considered poor?



Quote:
Originally Posted by chi_tino View Post
The complaint that "our costs have gone up too much" is a poor one when you are a service provider trying to add value to your clients.

Many projects that are economical to perform at one price are no longer economical to perform at a higher price. This is especially true for energy efficiency improvements. For example, paying somebody $50-100 an hour to lay insulation and caulk around windows cancels out the savings and makes the entire project uneconomic.

I received an estimate of work from one of those "energy efficiency" companies that perform home energy audits. While their projects could have saved money, over 100% of the savings were extracted by the cost of their labor. One quote was to install solar window film for $3,000 throughout the house (which would have taken less than a day for a team of two guys). I independently sourced the cost of the window film at about $400, so I will allow the reader to calculate the hourly labor rate.

[The company also mentioned that I should do this because 30% of the cost of the film would come to me in a tax credit. Taking $120 off the bill does not make the project much more economic.]

One poster on this board mentioned that they offer a few percent discount if someone wants to negotiate. When you are priced about 200-300% higher than what it takes to make the project work, a few percent isn't going to hack it.
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Old 03-17-2010, 10:16 AM
 
2,726 posts, read 4,587,347 times
Reputation: 2341
Quote:
Originally Posted by algia View Post
Really? did the gas and food prices have not gone up for you? cool! r u on welfare?

Anyway, I see a lot of "do it yourself and hope for the best" in your future.....you do sound like you want to own slaves again!

When the gas prices will go down along with food and everything else on shelves, services will lower theirs prices too......your expectations are unrealistic!

I am not sure if you noticed this but since the housing bubble exploded, prices for EVERYTHING went UP! I haven't seen 1 thing go down....other than home prices which was expected....a can of Lysol is $6.99 @ Publix! WHAT? what does that DO? does it cook?, digs holes? the price should be $2 for that.....but it's not........so go ahead and call their manufacturer and tell them it's too expensive and see what they say......I can do it for you and then post their answer here........seriously!

This thread has pushed the limits of common sense and is very insulting to all business owners out there not to mention employees.....

Businesses are present for PROFIT! not loss, people don't go into business for themselves to slave around people like you! they are here to do what you can't do!
Services, accounting, photography, architecture, interior design, landscaping etc etc don't equal slavery! considering how expensive everything has become these days $10 bucks an hour doesn't cut it well anymore......did you know that now $40,000/year is considered poor?
Not true! In fact we have had a deflation period and right now inflation is not YET a concern. So, I don't know how is "everything went up" is measured.
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