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Old 03-31-2014, 06:17 PM
 
1,500 posts, read 2,905,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUNNDFRNT View Post
This is where you and I disagree, your map shows a lot more than Hyde Park, its also not a apples to apples, you have a residential area in TT where Hyde Park is lot more dense, a lot more people traffic, from restaurants, drunk people who do stupid things, its also a target since its an affluent area. If you look at the rest of South Tampa thats a more residential area you mostly only see the crime activity along the main roads.
How picky do you want to be? I think you are being silly. You can only show so much on the maps but they are telling nonetheless. What I did was to try and show similar geographic areas by size and as close to the areas being compared as the maps allowed.

So if you look at a map of Terrace Park in Tampa, it runs generally from 30th to about 52nd where is Temple Terrace and from Fowler down towards but not hitting the river and so I was very careful to then show also a 22 block area width-wise featuring the Hyde Park area of Tampa for the comparison. If you'll notice, TP's eastern border falls right between the "analytics" and "metadata" tabs and so that also is where I framed the Hyde map so that sized area would be about the same. I did try to maintain consistency of fruit size as well as the mapping technology allowed.

Whether or not an area is denser in population has little relevance to the victim of a crime with regard to whether there are 10 or 20 crimes in a 22 block area. Sure, odds are less if density is more that you'll get hit instead of your neighbor--assuming you don't care about your neighbor getting hit--but someone got hit. As to densities, city-data shows Terrace Park at 3,388 people per sq mile, Tampa at 3,088, Temple Terrace at 3,674, Old Hyde Park 3,866, N Hyde Park (N of Kennedy) 4,881, Historic Hyde Park 5,716 people per square mile.

So to average Hyde's areas, you've got 4,821 people per sq mi vs TP's 3,388 yet still you have twice the crime. So even in consideration of density there's still much more crime down there. The only argument you've got left is to say their crime is better because it takes place in a more affluent area and I've probably got a reasonable counterargument to that.

Also note that the only reason the TP map is larger was to show TT in relation. The length of the map was simply determined by the map itself so both of those show equal sized areas, with Hyde showing more to the north as the bay is to the south (and I did avoid putting Dale Mabry on there where was lots more crime).

And what I was comparing was a lower income area with a higher income area to see what crime occurs because there seems a misperception often voiced on city-data that low income area crime is more abundant--or somehow more abhorrent--than crime in higher income areas which clearly the crime map and reality disagrees.

If you look anywhere, likely you'll see most crime in commercial districts which would make sense because houses generally have people at night. But just as clearly there's plenty of crime in residential Hyde. Also, if you are going to argue in a coherent way, then your argument needs to be consistent such that you can't in one breath suggest not apples to apples to say the comparison isn't fair but then to say oh, but they target that area because of affluence, for then you are justifying the very mixed fruit about which you just complained.
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Old 04-01-2014, 08:24 AM
 
5,018 posts, read 3,737,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by housingcrashsurvivor View Post

And what I was comparing was a lower income area with a higher income area to see what crime occurs because there seems a misperception often voiced on city-data that low income area crime is more abundant--or somehow more abhorrent--than crime in higher income areas which clearly the crime map and reality disagrees.

If you look anywhere, likely you'll see most crime in commercial districts which would make sense because houses generally have people at night. But just as clearly there's plenty of crime in residential Hyde. Also, if you are going to argue in a coherent way, then your argument needs to be consistent such that you can't in one breath suggest not apples to apples to say the comparison isn't fair but then to say oh, but they target that area because of affluence, for then you are justifying the very mixed fruit about which you just complained.
That is my point is not a misconception, There aren't the Hydes no one considers North Hyde park Hyde Park, my issue is that to make your point you pick Hyde Park, which is dense, has more commercial properties, more foot traffic, is more likely to be targeted for opportunity crimes due to the traffic, then you want to include North Hyde Park, and your maps shows areas north of Kennedy and also SOHO, if you look at other more traditional residential affluent areas in S Tampa it would be a better comparison, look at Virginia Park where there are 0 incidents in the month of march, Palma Ceia, etc. I lived in Lower Eastside Tenements in the early 90's and Bergen County Suburbs, I can tell you the stuff I seen and experienced first hand growing up in a lower income area I only saw on TV in Bergen County.
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:38 AM
 
1,500 posts, read 2,905,208 times
Reputation: 1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUNNDFRNT View Post
That is my point is not a misconception, There aren't the Hydes no one considers North Hyde park Hyde Park, my issue is that to make your point you pick Hyde Park, which is dense, has more commercial properties, more foot traffic, is more likely to be targeted for opportunity crimes due to the traffic, then you want to include North Hyde Park, and your maps shows areas north of Kennedy and also SOHO, if you look at other more traditional residential affluent areas in S Tampa it would be a better comparison, look at Virginia Park where there are 0 incidents in the month of march, Palma Ceia, etc. I lived in Lower Eastside Tenements in the early 90's and Bergen County Suburbs, I can tell you the stuff I seen and experienced first hand growing up in a lower income area I only saw on TV in Bergen County.
I've no need to look at other areas, though you are welcome to, of course, as my point being that city-data posters don't bash Hyde but they do bash Temple Terrace--that's it, that's the subject without going off topic--for reasons of crime that doesn't exist as much in and around TT as it does more so in and around Hyde. So all your argument about other areas is nothing but diversion from that fact of the unfair, prejudiced and utterly stupid bashing by ignorant as hell city-data posters. The fact remains a fact so I've no need to entertain the diversion. You've already complained about mixing apples and oranges yet now you are introducing lemons.

It really doesn't matter that the map shows areas immediately outside of target areas in showing similarly sized areas particularly when addressing a point another poster made of spillage into another area. Why is it okay to say some supposed (not supposed by me, by the way) crime element from Tampa spills into Temple Terrace without it being okay to show areas adjacent to Hyde? It is exactly the very same thing. Yes? Seriously, I think you are trying to split a hair on a bold head. It's silly and unjustified as much as you try to rationalize it. One area might have more bars, the other area is adjacent (on it's western side) to some industry. You could say anything about either area but it remains that crime is still crime and that there is more crime in and immediately around Hyde Park--even when accounting for density--than in Terrace Park. Your attempted diversion does not alter that fact.

Last edited by housingcrashsurvivor; 04-01-2014 at 09:47 AM..
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