Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have a problem with my current position. I believe it's through no fault of my own. This year, I was assigned to teach math for the first time. It turns out that, for my 9th graders, for some, I'm the third first year math teacher they've had in as many years. This led to requests for the other teacher. Understandable. Once those kids moved, others realized they could and did. Then, I suspect, someone noticed that several kids had moved and questioned that maybe they should too (snowball rolling down hill here). Fast forward to now and I'm the teacher in the school who has had the most requests to move out of my class (without a single complaint as to my teaching methods that I've been made aware of) and a reputation as the teacher no one wants. I don't seem to have this issue with kids in the 11th grade.
Anyway, I was, pretty much, told that if I don't fix this perception problem I will not be allowed to tenure. That means I'm out of a job in a year IF they even give me another chance next year. I don't think I deserve the rep I have and I don't think I'd have it if the school policy wasn't to try to accomodate every parent request for teacher assignement. I think I would have been fine if they'd told the parents to give me a chance.
I am looking for a job back in industry but not finding much for a 50+ former engineer turned teacher who has been out of industry for 6 years. Finding another teaching position with the fact that more parents requested reassignment out of my class on my PR than any other teacher in the school this year is going to be tough. While I believe that a big part of the issue is that I'm the third first year math teacher some of these kids have had in as many years and that the other teacher is a very charismatic, experienced and dynamic teacher, if I don't fix this by the end of this year, I could be out of job as early as the end of this year.
I tend to be serious teacher. I know my material and I expect my students to think. Making them think can be a painful process that they don't like but I believe it will best arm them for the future. I will allow them to struggle through something as opposed to doing it for them because I think much is learned through struggling (there have been a couple of complaints that I don't answer questions but if you go looking for negative things about any teacher you'll find it and my intent here is for the students to find the answers as I think they will learn more finding them than by me telling them. I will guide them but I do want them to struggle to find answers themselves vs. me just giving them to them.).
I asked my dd what makes kids like teachers. She told me that "If you're a man, you have to be friendly but firm. If you're a woman, you need to be young, a total push over or so crazy the kids don't know what you'll do next. I can't do young and I refuse to be a push over so I'm left with crazy which actually fits with my personality type BUT that is the kind of rep it takes time to build and isn't going to get kids to like me which is what I need.
Edited to add: I get along fine with the kids who have stayed in my classes. Up until yesterday's meeting, my plan was just to continue to build relationships one on one, and wait until next year when I'm not the first year math teacher anymore. However, I may not have until next year because I now have a reputation as the teacher the kids don't like. I really don't think I did anything besides be another first year math teacher to deserve this. The really sad part is I enjoy the math classes more than the science classes because I can get to know the sudents when they're working in class. It's easier to connect with them one on one but that doesn't seem to be enough here. I need to change my reputation and I need to change it fast.
WWYD if you were me besides look for another job? I'm doing that but looking and finding are two different things. The finding could take a while and in the meantime I need this job.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 02-09-2013 at 08:44 AM..
I think if you try to change your personality in an attempt to make the kids like you, you are setting yourself up for failure. The kids will see right through it, especially as they have known you for at least 5 months at this point. My kids have all had teachers they didn't like, but they DID respect. That should be your focus, as I think it would be more attainable.
My youngest son was assigned to one of "those teachers", who had a terrible reputation among the students. As soon as he got his schedule, he joined the line outside the guidance department. As it turned out, his schedule didn't allow for a switch without also dumping classes he wanted. He never did end up liking that man, but he completely respected him and realized he learned a lot more under him than he would have under an easier teacher.
If you are doing a good job of teaching the material, (and that's a big "if" when you say you want them to struggle), then students will recognize that fact in the end. Will it be soon enough to keep you on the payroll? Maybe not.
I asked my dd what makes kids like teachers. She told me that "If you're a man, you have to be friendly but firm. If you're a woman, you need to be young, a total push over or so crazy the kids don't know what you'll do next. I can't do young and I refuse to be a push over so I'm left with crazy which actually fits with my personality type BUT that is the kind of rep it takes time to build and isn't going to get kids to like me which is what I need.
I call BS on this - sorry.
Looking back in my high school days (eons ago) and my kids' high school experience (not that long ago), I'd say the teachers my kids both liked and respected were the ones that it was clear they enjoyed their job and truly cared about the students. My daughter got "that" Chem teacher that everyone told her to avoid. He was tough and she wasn't particularly science-y. She worked her rear end off, got a C and really enjoyed and respected the teacher. No problem. She also got the math teacher who later turned out to be "that" teacher that everyone tried to transfer out of her class. That class was a nightmare. The teacher had nothing but disdain for the kids. She always had more important things to do and enjoyed frequently reminding them how smart she was (and she was...very smart. So smart she couldn't for the life of her understand how anyone could not understand something so easy as geometry/trig/calculus) and how not smart they were and that they just weren't working hard enough or they'd understand it - she shouldn't have to explain everything. When my son later was assigned to that same teacher, I had him transferred out. Even at the expense of taking him out of the honors level of that math class. She was young and good looking.
Teaching is a job that requires people skills. It is. It won't matter how much you know if you can't get anyone to listen.
Last edited by maciesmom; 02-09-2013 at 10:10 AM..
I think if you try to change your personality in an attempt to make the kids like you, you are setting yourself up for failure. The kids will see right through it, especially as they have known you for at least 5 months at this point. My kids have all had teachers they didn't like, but they DID respect. That should be your focus, as I think it would be more attainable.
My youngest son was assigned to one of "those teachers", who had a terrible reputation among the students. As soon as he got his schedule, he joined the line outside the guidance department. As it turned out, his schedule didn't allow for a switch without also dumping classes he wanted. He never did end up liking that man, but he completely respected him and realized he learned a lot more under him than he would have under an easier teacher.
If you are doing a good job of teaching the material, (and that's a big "if" when you say you want them to struggle), then students will recognize that fact in the end. Will it be soon enough to keep you on the payroll? Maybe not.
Kids are going to struggle if they are learning (please remember that I teach geometry, chemistry, physics and physical science. These are not easy subjects and I teach high school students who are learning how to think critically. You cannot be shown how to think critically by example. You learn it by struggling through applying what you are taught. If I didn't ask my students to step outside of their comfort zone and withdraw support to get them to learn, I would not be doing my job.). I find that if I hand it to them, they just memorize answers and forget the material as soon as the test is over. IMO, that doesn't do them any good. They remember what they struggle to learn (what you learn in pain, you retain). It is not my job to make it easy for them. My job is to get them to use the gray matter between their ears and that will involve struggles. IMO, if you're not stretching, you're not learning.
Test data supports that I do a good job teaching the material in science. I don't have any test data for math yet as this is my first year teaching math, however, my guess will be no as the person I replaced was a FANTASTIC math teacher and I need a few years to get there. In the charter school I taught in, passing scores on the state science tests increased 41% in my time there only to fall back to their previous low (one point higher than the year before I taught there) the year after I left. I understand that the performance of the top quartile science students has increased since I started at this school (passing scores have not changed but don't teach the lower level chem class here. I did at my old school.). I don't know how much of that is me but I find it interesting that I'm two for two in increased scores so far. That would be an odd coincidence. We'll have to see if those top quartile scores fall when I leave this school and if I find another teaching job, if they rise there. Maybe it is just coincidence. It's hard to say as I'm, certainly, not the only teacher who influences the kids I teach. However, the data does support that I, certainly, don't hurt. Scores have not gone down with the kids I've taught...at least not yet...they could in math just because it's not the natural fit science is for me. I like it better than science but it's a subject I need to learn how to teach well. I teach science well because I know science well. It just flows.
One thing I am is a subject matter expert. I see how things are interconnected and that's what I try to get my students to see. It's hard. I know it's hard but I also know that this is what will give them a leg up in college and beyond. I've been in the real world and was successful. I was successful in college as well. I know what it takes to win and it's not an easy row to hoe.
I have the respect of my peers because I know my material (One of the compliments I hear from my peers is that students say that one of the things they like about me is that I can answer any question they throw at me) and I'm not an easy A like many teachers are in my school (it's one way to gain favor with parents and students). What I do I do to benefit my students in the long run. I really don't care if they don't like me now (except my job now appears to be on the line because they don't). I want them to look back 6 years from now and realize what I did for them. I've only had a couple of students come back to say thanks but I've only been teaching 5 years. I've had several contact me for help with chemistry in college. I think the fact they contact me for this help is telling of the quality of my teaching. Is it comfortable and easy for them? Nope. But I don't want it to be. I want them to leave my class able to think in new ways and you don't accomplish that without struggles along the way.
My goals for my students are long term. I expect that many won't realize what I do for a long time. Some may not even realize it but I'll know. My problem, however, is I have a perception problem. One that has to be changed if I'm going to stay where I am. While I am looking for something else, who knows if I'll find something else. This may be my best shot. So what do I do? I need, serious, advice on how to improve my likability NOW. I guess I could just start handing out A's like some of the other teachers do. Then they'll be clammoring to get into my classes like they are theirs but that flies in the face of everything I stand for in teaching. I'd rather clean toilets.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 02-09-2013 at 10:31 AM..
I really don't care if they don't like me now (except my job now appears to be on the line because they don't). I want them to look back 6 years from now and realize what I did for them. I've only had a couple of students come back to say thanks but I've only been teaching 5 years. I've had several contact me for help with chemistry in college. I think the fact they contact me for this help is telling of the quality of my teaching. Is it comfortable and easy for them? Nope. But I don't want it to be. I want them to leave my class able to think in new ways and you don't accomplish that without struggles along the way.
You don't have to be their best friend. But you should care if they are tuning you and transferring out because they DISLIKE you. Your posts seem to have a tone of pride in the fact that your students dislike you. As if you believe that being likeable and being effective can't coexist.
You don't have to be their best friend. But you should care if they are tuning you and transferring out because they DISLIKE you. Your posts seem to have a tone of pride in the fact that your students dislike you. As if you believe that being likeable and being effective can't coexist.
I agree one don't need to be good friends with their students. But one does need their students to listen to them with respect.
Your posts seem to have a tone of pride in the fact that your students dislike you.
And a touch of entitlement...
OP, when you say you want the students to struggle to learn the answers themselves, how does that work in the classroom? Do you just say, "I'm not going to give you the answer," in a dismissive way and go back to what your were doing?
Is this during discussion/lecture time when you are actively teaching a concept, and you use guiding questions to HELP them figure it out, then celebrate their victory when they do? What is the process?
In my experience, this ^^^ is what my students enjoyed the most, and when they know they've learned something and are recognized for that, they want to do it again.
I will say that I don't like the fact that students can transfer out of a class en masse. In our school, it almost takes an act of Congress to switch classes.
But your posts are starting to sound like you're p*ssed that you lost the vote for homecoming queen. Bitterness does translate, and kids will pick up on it.
You don't need to necessarily be LIKEABLE. You at least need to make sure they know you are on their side and that you WANT them to learn this stuff.
Not everyone is cut out to be a teacher, as evidenced by the high turn over rate.
Classroom management problems, parent problems, administration problems, problems getting the students to respect and like you, etc. Put together these can all be indicators that someone is better suited in a different profession.
I don't get students to like me. They either like me or they don't. I generally like most kids, and it shows in my interaction with them. I am firm, have boundaries, but am also warm and compassionate, and treat them with respect. I work mostly with teens, who are fairly adept at reading whether the adults in their life respect them, or if they are contemptuous of them. Being a student's buddy is not important to me (or desired, as it blurs boundaries). Being someone a student can respect, and one who shows respect, is.
I never saw much benefit in being a complete hardass. I have expectations, and stick to them, and there are natural consequences if people don't meet the stated expectations, but my general demeanor is lighthearted, not drill sergeant. I tend to be a teacher that kids feel comfortable with, and a big part of it is patience and approachability. You don't have to lower your expectations to display these characteristics.
You can say, "I don't care if my students like me, I'm not there for them to like me," and if this truly is your philosophy, then "getting students to like you" shouldn't even be a thread you post. But I suspect that you do understand that learning is more easily facilitated when there is some degree of rapport built. People, not just kids/students, tend to work harder for people with whom they have established some amount of bond and rapport...that's built-in reinforcement. My SO is a senior officer in his particular branch of the military, and does a lot of mentoring of lower ranking enlisted personnel, and this is a cardinal philosophy...that bonds of respect (as well as clearly stated expectations) being established within a heirarchy helps people rise to a greater level of achievement.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
