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Location: In a rural place where people can't bother me ;)
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Back in 2002-2005, the old "legacy" iPods, as I call them, were sometimes used as cheating devices. Teachers had no clue that one was able to type up notes (cheats) on a computer, then just drag and drop the file to the iPod. Bingo.... listen to "music" while testing...... but actually cheating. I was never afforded that ability simply because my parents laughed at the price of iPods back then.
I am sorry that happened to your daughter. I hope she is ok now.
I had a parent send their 9yo to summer camp with a broken wrist once. We realized something was wrong right away as she couldn't even pick up her lunch bag. We had to wait until mom got to work, and then she came back and took her to the hospital and she came back the next day with a cast. Should mom have been "fired"? Should she have lost her parental rights for what was just a simple mistake in underestimating an injury when she is not a health care professional? If you would answer yes to those, I think you are greatly over reacting, and if you answer "no" I think you should figure out why you are trying to hold the adults in a school setting to a higher standard than you hold parents to.
Thank you, yes she recovered well.
To your second point. We held no animosity toward the kid who did it; it was a simply playground accident and sometimes stuff happens. I could even mitigate the teacher who was not a health care professional. But what about the full time nurse, who was a health care professional? Should she not be held to a higher standard? Or the principal who hide everything behind "policy?" We didn't start out frustrated or angry -- we just logged it as a "stuff happens" accident. All we did was make a recommendation for a policy change -- when in doubt, call the parent. You would have thought we'd shot their best dog the way the school administration threw up the "our policy is fine/we followed policy" barrier. They weren't interested in changes to prevent a future problem, all they cared about was protecting themselves rather than kids.
As for the parent in your scenario, in many places that parent would be getting a visit from protective services.
To your second point. We held no animosity toward the kid who did it; it was a simply playground accident and sometimes stuff happens. I could even mitigate the teacher who was not a health care professional. But what about the full time nurse, who was a health care professional? Should she not be held to a higher standard? Or the principal who hide everything behind "policy?" We didn't start out frustrated or angry -- we just logged it as a "stuff happens" accident. All we did was make a recommendation for a policy change -- when in doubt, call the parent. You would have thought we'd shot their best dog the way the school administration threw up the "our policy is fine/we followed policy" barrier. They weren't interested in changes to prevent a future problem, all they cared about was protecting themselves rather than kids.
As for the parent in your scenario, in many places that parent would be getting a visit from protective services.
I'm just curious -- was the school nurse actually a nurse.
I know that may sound like a silly question, but in my very large district there was no requirement for a background in health or medicine for a person to be a "clinic aide".
I didn't personally verify her credentials but the school certainly represented her to the parents as a licensed medical professional. I don't know if she was RN or PA or LPN specifically. Are you saying the school would list someone as a nurse who had not earned that credential?
I didn't personally verify her credentials but the school certainly represented her to the parents as a licensed medical professional. I don't know if she was RN or PA or LPN specifically. Are you saying the school would list someone as a nurse who had not earned that credential?
In our large system (196 schools and centers), the official title was "clinic aide" (at least at the time). People generally said "the school nurse", but over 20 years there not one of our "clinic aides" had no type of degree in nursing or medicine.
In our large system (196 schools and centers), the official title was "clinic aide" (at least at the time). People generally said "the school nurse", but over 20 years there not one of our "clinic aides" had no type of degree in nursing or medicine.
It's still clinic aide in the district. That's who staffs the clinic. There is a public health nurse assigned to the schools, but one covers many buildings and is only in any one building periodically.
It's still clinic aide in the district. That's who staffs the clinic. There is a public health nurse assigned to the schools, but one covers many buildings and is only in any one building periodically.
Which is kind of what I expected. Glad you could confirm. Finding qualified nurses who would work in a school for the kind of pay was a no-starter. Our public health nurse visited the school once a year, and was available for telephone consultations. That's why as administrators we had to learn to administer injections or epi-pens for anaphalactic shock (and I know I spelled that wrong).
To your second point. We held no animosity toward the kid who did it; it was a simply playground accident and sometimes stuff happens. I could even mitigate the teacher who was not a health care professional. But what about the full time nurse, who was a health care professional? Should she not be held to a higher standard? Or the principal who hide everything behind "policy?" We didn't start out frustrated or angry -- we just logged it as a "stuff happens" accident. All we did was make a recommendation for a policy change -- when in doubt, call the parent. You would have thought we'd shot their best dog the way the school administration threw up the "our policy is fine/we followed policy" barrier. They weren't interested in changes to prevent a future problem, all they cared about was protecting themselves rather than kids.
As for the parent in your scenario, in many places that parent would be getting a visit from protective services.
I am glad to hear your daughter is fine.
Just as a reminder you said "Everyone involved should have been fired". Fired from their job because they made a mistake that if a parent had done it, may or may not get a visit from CPS. The equivalent would be if the parent, both parents really, lost custody. No visit, no investigation, no warning, just plain old "fired". Even at hospitals, if a doctor or nurse makes a mistake, as simple as not realizing a bone is broken until it is xrayed, they do not get fired out of hand.
This is another classic example of teachers, nurses, school administrators being held to a higher standard than parents.
Jammers are illegal for a reason: calls are made to reach someone in an emergency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Yes. But in a school.
Odd. I went through 13 years of public school and 7 years of university and never once needed to receive an emergency phone call.
I agree. Not one emergency phone to the school office or University office for me, either.
I do not recall EVER having to call the school office with a message to give my (now adult) children during their entire elementary, middle school and high school days.
DS started using a cell phone when he was, I believe, a sophomore in college and DD was, I believe, a junior in HS. However, I do not believe that DD even took her phone to school with her. She only used it when she was out with friends, or driving the car while she was running errands.
What in the world are all these "emergencies" that are suddenly happening with students?
They have ever had problems at the elementary school where I used to teach because parents insist that their kindergarten & 1st graders be allowed to carry cell phones to get "emergency calls from home". Are the parents planning to call their 5 or 6 year olds and say "On your drive home, please stop at the grocery store and pick up a quart of milk and a loaf of bread" ?
BTW, we have several school buildings in my district are built with heavy stones/bricks/cement blocks/whatever that are "natural jammers". If anyone, including teachers, wants to make a cell phone call they need to either go outside or stand with the phone within a few inches of an outside door and some, but not all, of the windows. These schools have landlines in each classroom.
Last edited by germaine2626; 01-24-2017 at 05:39 PM..
Just as a reminder you said "Everyone involved should have been fired". Fired from their job because they made a mistake that if a parent had done it, may or may not get a visit from CPS. The equivalent would be if the parent, both parents really, lost custody. No visit, no investigation, no warning, just plain old "fired". Even at hospitals, if a doctor or nurse makes a mistake, as simple as not realizing a bone is broken until it is xrayed, they do not get fired out of hand.
This is another classic example of teachers, nurses, school administrators being held to a higher standard than parents.
I agree with you. And I'd like to expand on that just a bit.
There seems to be a high degree of mean-ness in the United States nowadays. Every time someone makes a mistake, there are people that want them fired. Getting fired can literally ruin a person's life. Sometimes take food off the table at home. Sometimes lose a place to live. And yet, we've all made mistakes. And we've all made serious mistakes. There have been a few times in my career I crossed my fingers because I had make a mistake. But on balance, I was an excellent teacher and a really good principal (so others tell me).
I think this mother ought to think in terms of human-ness. If her daughter makes a mistake in school, should the school just expel her? Because that's sort of equivalent to being fired when you're a kid.
Maybe it would be helpful if I explained how my school system worked with staff mistakes.
We looked for not isolated mistakes, but patters, and it was sort of a sliding scale. If the mistake put a child's life literally at risk, or something like child abuse, of course, that could result in being immediately fired. To be honest, in 33 years of working in schools, I only saw things that serious a couple of times. Otherwise:
Serious mistake #1: a verbal warning, probably with a notation documenting the warning kept in a general administrative file.
Serious mistake #2: a letter to the teacher outlining the mistake, mentioning the previous mistake, suggesting better ways to work, and placed in the teacher's personnel file.
Serious mistake #3: a letter to the teacher and placed in their personnel file that outlines the same type of things mentioned in #2, plus the statement: "If this type of behavior occurs again, you may be terminated.
Serious mistake #4: Same as #3, but now the phrase is "If this type of behavior occurs again, you will be terminated.
Step # 5 is obvious.
And, repeating what I said earlier, serious mistakes don't necessarily start with step 1.
The point is, all people are human, all people make mistakes.
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Are the parents planning to call their 5 or 6 year olds and say "On your drive home, please stop at the grocery store and pick up a quart of milk and a loaf of bread" ? 
