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I've never understood why this is such a big issue. Let the kid dress/act in his/her gender identity. Go to that bathroom. Walk into a stall and close the door. Nobody knows the difference and problem solved.
But that's the easy part. I suspect that the real unease is with plain existence of transgender kids, more than it is with where they pee. Most folks find it hard to understand transgender kids, let alone transgender adults, and they basically don't want to deal with the problem at all. I'm not a teacher but have worked as a parent and with the DOE here in many schools besides the ones my own kids attended, and I've generally found educators and administrators can be way more tolerant and understanding of kids who are different than a lot of parents. They want kids to grow up without the prejudices of the last generation. But sometimes the lat generation resists.
As a retired school principal, I'd hate to have to deal with the situation.
But, maybe the solution is to have small individual toilet rooms. I've seen this in some non-school setting already.
No child should should be made to use bathroom or locker room facilities with someone they believe to be a different gender. No child. Not a transgendered child, not a child whose biology matches their perceived gender. A transgendered child who is MtF needs to not be forced to use the boy's room, and that is a true need. The problem is when they want to use the girls room, and please note that word want. Those biological girls don't want a person who they feel is a different gender in their restroom anymore than the transgendered child did. They too need to be able to have bathroom and lockroom facilities that do not have people they consider a different gender in them.
There need to be single user facilities in every school. I personally wish every classroom had a single user, gender neutral bathroom attached to it. It would eliminate this issue, plus there are other problems it would help solve.
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I've never understood why this is such a big issue. Let the kid dress/act in his/her gender identity. Go to that bathroom. Walk into a stall and close the door. Nobody knows the difference and problem solved.
But that's the easy part. I suspect that the real unease is with plain existence of transgender kids, more than it is with where they pee. Most folks find it hard to understand transgender kids, let alone transgender adults, and they basically don't want to deal with the problem at all. I'm not a teacher but have worked as a parent and with the DOE here in many schools besides the ones my own kids attended, and I've generally found educators and administrators can be way more tolerant and understanding of kids who are different than a lot of parents. They want kids to grow up without the prejudices of the last generation. But sometimes the lat generation resists.
I'll never understand why some people can't understand something so simple.
It has to do with privacy. In the men's room there are these things called urinals, where those with certain external parts stand. And many school rest rooms, at least the men's, have no stall doors so even sitting is on public display. Or locker rooms with community showers.
This has nothing to do with prejudice for or against transgender and everything to do with keeping certain parts private and not exposed publicly to other parts.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 02-19-2017 at 06:11 AM..
Reason: removed off topic to school setting comment
I'll never understand why some people can't understand something so simple.
It has to do with privacy. In the men's room there are these things called urinals, where those with certain external parts stand. And many school rest rooms, at least the men's, have no stall doors so even sitting is on public display. Or locker rooms with community showers.
This has nothing to do with prejudice for or against transgender and everything to do with keeping certain parts private and not exposed publicly to other parts.
Bathrooms in many schools are a problem. And, you are right that in many "boy's rooms" stall doors have been removed due to drug issues and smoking. So that is a relevant issue. But adults need to also start making better decisions about facilities. For example, one day I learned that our head custodian had decided on his own that he would no longer put toilet paper in student restrooms because occasionally kids would throw an entire roll in a toilet. And when I raised the issue with him and said, "So can we take away the toilet paper in the custodial restroom." "Well no. How would we wipe ourselves?" "That's my point exactly!"
Frankly, I think the only real solution has come from OldHag and I in previous posts -- individual little bathrooms. If they can do it in stores (and I have seen some), they could also do it in school restrooms.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 02-19-2017 at 06:11 AM..
Reason: removed orphaned comment
This doesn't IMO have anything to do with privacy or with teenage developmental readiness or fears about some sex-crazed adult guy in the girls room--I dont think there are a lot of pedophiles or sexual assailants of any age eager to dress as women to commit those crimes.
This fear is culturally determined, just like the fear of blacks and whites using the same bathroom during Jim Crow times was culturally determined. There is no data I've ever seen that that prejudice was justified and I don't think there's any that this prejudice is justified either. Kids need to be taught by parents or teachers-- or preferably both-- that some kids are different this way but just like everybody else in other ways. Transgender bathroom hysteria runs wild in schools and everyplace else when people stay willfully ignorant.
And yes, I'd be fine sending my kids to schools that weren't hung up on where transgender kids pee. In fact, I'd prefer it.
As a retired school principal, I'd hate to have to deal with the situation.
But, maybe the solution is to have small individual toilet rooms. I've seen this in some non-school setting already.
before this started. I can't even imagine dealing with it with the student population I taught. It would have been constant turmoil.
I had to laugh at your toilet paper story. Saw that happen as well as all the restrooms in the building being locked.
I've never understood why this is such a big issue. Let the kid dress/act in his/her gender identity. Go to that bathroom. Walk into a stall and close the door. Nobody knows the difference and problem solved.
But that's the easy part. I suspect that the real unease is with plain existence of transgender kids, more than it is with where they pee. Most folks find it hard to understand transgender kids, let alone transgender adults, and they basically don't want to deal with the problem at all. I'm not a teacher but have worked as a parent and with the DOE here in many schools besides the ones my own kids attended, and I've generally found educators and administrators can be way more tolerant and understanding of kids who are different than a lot of parents. They want kids to grow up without the prejudices of the last generation. But sometimes the lat generation resists.
It's not just bathrooms but locker rooms also. It is a privacy issue. There's also the issue of the people pushing these policies trying to redefine what it means to be a man and a woman. There is a lot of stuff being pushed into the schools along with these bathroom/locker room policies. They're starting to teach kids about gender identity and gender fluidity. It's blatant social engineering and indoctrination. I expect the public school system to teach my kids how to read, write and do math, not talk to them about how some boys have vaginas and some girls have penises. Parents need to fight this crap.
No child should should be made to use bathroom or locker room facilities with someone they believe to be a different gender. No child. Not a transgendered child, not a child whose biology matches their perceived gender. A transgendered child who is MtF needs to not be forced to use the boy's room, and that is a true need. The problem is when they want to use the girls room, and please note that word want. Those biological girls don't want a person who they feel is a different gender in their restroom anymore than the transgendered child did. They too need to be able to have bathroom and lockroom facilities that do not have people they consider a different gender in them.
There need to be single user facilities in every school. I personally wish every classroom had a single user, gender neutral bathroom attached to it. It would eliminate this issue, plus there are other problems it would help solve.
I understand what you are saying, but the bolded sounds like an absolute. I know many, many girls (and boys) who would not care one way or the other. Not saying some don't care, but it is much less of an issue with younger people than it is older.
And yes, I agree single user facilities should be available to anyone who WANTS to use them. Meaning if a transgendered child wants to use them, or if a cisgendered student doesn't want to change in a locker room for whatever reason.
What I do not think should happen is someone deciding for others. Meaning Susie doesn't like Chrissy in the locker room because she was born a boy, so she has to change somewhere else. If it bothers Susie, she can change elsewhere.
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I'm glad I retired
