Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The schools I've been working at as a sub are rated between 7-9 out of 10, and there are still just as many or more behavior issues than ones I've been having in the low income, crime area schools. I've had an issue last year I posted about where a false accusation was made about me, and I had to take it to the district after that school asked me not to come back over it, who apologized to me that the administration poorly handled the situation, and was told I was welcome to go back. Those administrators aren't there anymore, but the sub coordinator who is sore at me over reporting them still cancels most of the jobs I pick up there and I'm about to complain about her next year.
I didn't go into teaching mostly due to my autism and the frustration I had during my field.
The other issue is of course with me the pay. I've been doing not too bad at being a sub, and have been encouraged to give it another try, but I've moved on because I'm about to pass a certification exam for computer programming and finish my master's degree and would be paid around a first year teacher's salary just as a junior developer and within a few years be paid amount as much as a teacher of 20 years would be getting. The low pay for the amount of effort I would have to put in being a teacher with autism is another issue.
If I were to teach again, it would be in an elective class such as technology or career exploration. I've been subbing for those classes though, and the frustration levels are still there as well. It's not as much as math or science though.
The other reason for me was that the curriculum isn't practical. It's not reasonable to believe that all students without an IEP even are still going to be able to master the same content at the same pace of the rest of the class. I like the learning labs better where students can work at their own pace as some classes I've worked for, but in those many students refuse to work and become disruptive and misbehave.
Interesting thoughts. I subbed for a while too back in the early 2000s and saw a lot of different types of schools. I went to a lot of the magnet schools, which were in the lower income areas and served the local and magnet populations, but really behavior problems had to do with the administration. They ranged from wonderful to awful. I have a degree in education as well, but after I taught abroad, I decided to pursue another career.
Of the three friends I made in the program and an elementary/middle school friend who was also in the program with me, another left teaching entirely. One started teaching and immediately had the extreme anxiety described in the article. We were still in school at the time and she’d come to class crying because the administration gave her no support. She switched schools to teach reading to ESL students and students with IEPs and while she got a fantastic administration, she still had a lot of stress to the point where she thought she had a serious illness. She was able to persevere and is now a district-wide reading resource teacher. A third friend got advanced certifications, became department head and took time off after having kids. She returned and teaches another subject in the state’s virtual school program. Finally, the fourth friend has decided to start a private high school.
Without going into many details, the problem with one very young child I knew was that she had already figured out by the age of eight that neither her teachers nor her parents could actually force her to do anything she didn't want to do without getting into major trouble themselves if they used any kind of physical force or used any kind of language that could be considered "emotionally abusive", no matter how mild. It was very unusual for a child to know this 20 years ago, but I think MOST school-age kids know this now, thanks to the media, psychologists, and many of those who make public education and child welfare policy
I have nothing but the utmost sympathy, empathy, pity and respect for those people who go into teaching and persevere. (I was a special education assistant for four years.)
P.S. If children have no fear of being suspended or expelled, even the threat of being kicked out of school has no effect -- plus, of course, the fact remains that most areas have rules that kids must attend school of one kind or another up to a certain age, unless I am mistaken about that.
In my wife's elementary building three teachers have resigned since the start of the school year and one other gave an early retirement notice for a loss of four Teachers in three months in one building! Cause is unruly, out of control, abusive students, and a Building Administrator who will not address the issue. Naturally, the building cannot obtain Substitute Teachers either.
And the openings being posted to back-fill the loss of Support Staff Personnel (leaving for the same reason as the Teachers) have drawn zero applicants! $17/hour with Pension and a very good health-care plan, ten months/year work with days-off to match that of any children at home, yet the students are so bad that no one is applying!
I wanted my wife to retire in June 2019 but she felt a commitment to fulfill her final year as the Union President for Support Staff, so she is giving it one more year till June 2020.
I agree that unruly students are a problem. However, I don't think $17 an hour is a good starting wage. Let me draw a comparison. My twenty year old daughter who has nothing more than a high school diploma has a job that pays her $16.50 an hour with benefits including a 401K plan and health insurance. Her job is full time and she is not required to take a "forced vacation" off during the summer months. Nor, does she have to deal with unruly students or any students for that matter. When she leaves her job at 4:00 p.m. she leaves most of her problems at work.
Being a school teacher has many issues attached to it. The former teachers I talk to here in Utah quit for a number of reasons. Some people just aren't "cut out" to do it. Its difficult day after day, year after year, to stand in front of a class and attempt to teach students. Than, you have to figure all the time that is spent grading and correcting the work that students do. Many teachers spend weekends grading papers while the rest of us are enjoying our time off.
Its a shame that parents don't do more to discipline and control their kids. My kids were never allowed to act up in school. However, I guess some parents don't do anything about it.
I agree that unruly students are a problem. However, I don't think $17 an hour is a good starting wage. Let me draw a comparison. My twenty year old daughter who has nothing more than a high school diploma has a job that pays her $16.50 an hour with benefits including a 401K plan and health insurance. Her job is full time and she is not required to take a "forced vacation" off during the summer months. Nor, does she have to deal with unruly students or any students for that matter. When she leaves her job at 4:00 p.m. she leaves most of her problems at work.
Being a school teacher has many issues attached to it. The former teachers I talk to here in Utah quit for a number of reasons. Some people just aren't "cut out" to do it. Its difficult day after day, year after year, to stand in front of a class and attempt to teach students. Than, you have to figure all the time that is spent grading and correcting the work that students do. Many teachers spend weekends grading papers while the rest of us are enjoying our time off.
Its a shame that parents don't do more to discipline and control their kids. My kids were never allowed to act up in school. However, I guess some parents don't do anything about it.
I agree that it’s not very good pay, but the previous post wasn’t referencing teaching positions. I am in a high COL area and our support staff starts at a little less than $16.50/ hour or $23,403 a year. In my district no advanced degree is required. They are a very valuable part of the school day, but support staff (instructional assistants) don’t do grading, don’t prepare lessons and are done when they are off the clock.
Kids are out of control and the parents (whose fault it is) blame teachers. Administrators do not know what to do, so they tell the teachers that if they were good teachers, they would know how to handle it. Teachers are treated like thieves, not like professionals. If the schools treated kids the way they treat teachers, lawsuits would fly non-stop. teachers are not allowed to use any form of discipline yet they are expected to maintain discipline. Figuring out how to reach kids and make them learn is hard enough.
Parents are always right. Since parents are the problem, there is no solution avialable because you have to cater to whatever the parents say. Teachers find the only way to stay out of trouble is to just give all the kids passing grades whether they learn anything or not.
The solution should be pretty simple. If a kid acts out - BAM out of class. If they act out three times - Bam out of school. too bad, you should have raised them better. Do that for a few years and suddenly parents will start paying a little attention to parenting.
Then they have nearly constant "observations" often by people who do not have an education degree or any teaching experience.Or who know nothing at all about the subject or how to teach that particular subject. those people are not there to help them but to criticize and find reasons to hold back promotions. The system is terrible.
teachers start out as basically kids themselves and have almost no training in how to handle discipline problems (other than a massive list of what you cannot or should not do).
Is it surprising few of them last more than three or four years?
I love teaching. I’ve experienced pushy parents, kids shouting obscenities at me and throwing over desks, vindictive admin, yet, nothing stays the same, and it’s always changing. Just when I think I’m ready to pursue something else, a current student, grateful parent (that means so much), fabulous and encouraging admin, or student from the past comes along and contacts me with a thank you. The only reason I’d leave the profession at this point is the lack of affordable pay. I just do t know what I’d do at this point!
If I’d known in my early 20s that I’d have very few options for living on a single teacher salary, but would still be required to get the equivalent of a masters degree to keep current, I’d never have gone into the profession. And honestly, I’d discourage college students from pursuing the job now. I hate to say that. It’s just not a job with much respect and the pay is unacceptable for the number of hoops we have to jump through to keep current, and amount of education we are required to pay for. The financial return is not worth it.
P.S. If children have no fear of being suspended or expelled, even the threat of being kicked out of school has no effect -- plus, of course, the fact remains that most areas have rules that kids must attend school of one kind or another up to a certain age, unless I am mistaken about that.
They don't want to be there anyway, so the only motivation really would have to be if they faced consequences of disappointing their parents and being punished at home for being suspended.
I was suspended from school a couple times. One got overturned by the school board, but not wanting to be suspended for me was more on the disappointment I had with myself for acting in ways that let my emotions get in the way. After the 2nd time, I was able to convince my parents to put me in online school, which they should have long before that, but it took a catastrophe happening multiple times for them to consider it.
Without going into many details, the problem with one very young child I knew was that she had already figured out by the age of eight that neither her teachers nor her parents could actually force her to do anything she didn't want to do without getting into major trouble themselves if they used any kind of physical force or used any kind of language that could be considered "emotionally abusive", no matter how mild. It was very unusual for a child to know this 20 years ago, but I think MOST school-age kids know this now, thanks to the media, psychologists, and many of those who make public education and child welfare policy
I have nothing but the utmost sympathy, empathy, pity and respect for those people who go into teaching and persevere. (I was a special education assistant for four years.)
P.S. If children have no fear of being suspended or expelled, even the threat of being kicked out of school has no effect -- plus, of course, the fact remains that most areas have rules that kids must attend school of one kind or another up to a certain age, unless I am mistaken about that.
One benefit of going private over public, for me, was that my philosophy is that I am willing to teach you anything within my ability to teach, but you have to bring your best effort to the table. I am not going to force feed anybody, I'm not going to get into power struggles. You either do the work, or you don't. You can't pass if you don't do the work. If there is a problem doing the work, come to me and I'll do everything within my power to help you remedy the situation so you can do the work. If you don't, I can't help you. Don't just not do the work.
When educators get caught up in situations where they "can't" fail a student who is not holding up their end of the learning contract, where there is no way to ensure that students are accountable for their own learning, that's when they no longer have the power or authority to do their jobs.
I can understand the pay, too. In my state (PA) teaching requires a master's degree in education and an undergrad degree in the subject you want to teach in. You also need a state certification and are required to pay for state clearances/background checks. The average starting pay for a teacher in my area of PA (Erie) is $44,000 in a public school. It is higher for STEM teachers/special ed teachers. Still though, for that amount of education $44K is not a high starting salary.
The above information is not entirely accurate~
You can start teaching with a Bachelor's Degree, and must obtain a certain amount of credits (often at your expense) within a certain time frame. This will allow you to get permanent certification. You do not have to finish a Master's Degree, but it does bump you on the scale, and many districts offer the incentive for more $$ for classes taken beyond the Master's. Salaries for any teacher in a district are the same and based on years of experience/credits/advanced degrees, NOT on the subject you teach.
As a retired teacher (33 years, all public schools in two states, 4 districts) I would say that the reason most teachers quit has changed. Early in my career, teachers would leave the classroom for corporate world mainly because of the low salaries. When a classroom teacher was making $11,000 per year and a trainee for insurance or sales was starting at $18,000~money was a motivator to get out. At one point we joke that success was making your age in thousands. 30 yrs = $30,000. This may still be the case in many areas, where teachers are still paid less than a living wage for the community in which they teach. Many teachers still supplement their salaries with summer employment or second jobs (as I had to during my first 8 years of teaching). I just loved the people I worked with; colleagues, students, parents and was passionate about the subject I taught that I stuck it out, taking the new changes as challenges.
As I grew closer to retirement, I saw many young teachers come in and be overwhelmed with the responsibilities of managing the whole part of being a teacher; being watched, critiqued, asked to stay beyond the work day for a meeting more than once a month, being encouraged to call parents on their "own time", not receiving help with classroom management or transitioning lessons in the classroom. Student teaching and real teaching were two different realms and they were frustrated and felt defeated beyond coping. Much of this I attributed to the lack of connectivity from administrators (who have to report to higher ups and the School Board) and the classroom teacher. Even the experienced teacher (like myself and other veterans) felt as though the administrators had different agenda's than seeing students enjoy and embrace learning, while mastering the material. When teaching to a test became the focus of education, when student's became the commanders of the classroom (without discipline or consequences to their choice behaviors), and when teacher's were constantly asked to add more to their plate (often out of their subject area or expertise) by administrator's who would praise you to take on an additional responsibility or job and then change "the plan" during the course of the year.
The reason people leave teaching is probably bottom line; it's not what they expected it to be and life is too short to be miserable for 30-40 years of a career. The reality is that teaching is hard work, exhausting and regimented. There are standards that have to be met, often with limited support and resources. Expectations for teachers to provide materials, meals, guidance, nurturing, counseling, clothing, discipline and the desire to learn is often hampered by the environment from which their students come to school. Schools and teachers are being expected to raise children as well as educate them.
Teaching was a great run for me, I don't regret a day of it~I left on my own terms and am grateful for the benefits of retirement.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
