Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Every parent that I have known believes that their child is gifted. What parent wants to think of their child as only being average? An honest one, I suppose.
No. There are plenty of parents out there who put down their kids all the time.
I'd like to add the completely obvious observation that believing your child to be special is far different from believing her to be gifted, particularly when we mean "gifted" in the academic or intellectual sense. I would hope -- although I know this is unfortunately not the case -- that all parents regard their child as special, because they are. However, not every parent truly does regard her or his child as being intellectually advanced. Most parents, I believe (based on observation) regard their child as "bright," but I would argue that this is substantially different from "needs to be advanced three grades," or "read Jane Eyre at four," or "likes calculus in between potty-training sessions."
Teachers, what is your reaction to a parent who thinks their young child is gifted? I am one of those parents. I see my dd understanding things the first time I explain them to her. When I mention it to someone else I get the feeling they picture me pushing my dd until she learns. But I am not that type of person and my dd is not that good at doing what she is told.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzie02
Between 18mo and 23mo my dd used to bring me foam letters for me to tell her what they were. I just did it to humor her. I didn't think she was learning anything because she was behind in talking. One day out of the blue looking inside a bottle cap she said "letters". After that whenever she brought the letters to us she repeated after me. Because we couldn't always understand what letter she was saying we started saying "a" is for apple. By 27 months she knew all the letters.
One time before she was 2 my dh, who was cutting the grass told her she couldn't go outside because she didn't have her shoes on. She went to the closet, got her shoes, put them on and went outside. She reasoned that if she had her shoes on it was OK to go outside. We learned to watch what we say to her.
She learned to read the hour on a digital clock around 2 1/2. It is not 8 yet so I do not have to go to bed.
Now that she is almost 4 she can understand a calendar she knows today is the 7th, yesterday was the 6th and tomorrow is the 8th. The way she learned that was because she kept pointing at the date on my computer. One day I happened to have the trash schedule calendar in front of me so I gave it to her. Now every morning she looks for it to check off the day.
Today I was putting her play letters in alphabetical order to see if they were any missing. She wanted to know why. I explained to her that letters just as numbers go in order. I told her to look at her play laptop for the order. She just got it no more explanations.
The other day I explained to her how water can freeze or vaporize. Yesterday at a restaurant she asked me why the water glass was wet outside. I told her it was because there was vapor in the air and it turns into water when it touches the cold glass. I remember my dad explaining this concept when I was much older at least 7-8.
She can use the DVR. She knows how to scroll through all the programs until she finds the cartoons she wants. Then she can either start the program or resume where she left off. She also knows how to fast forward the commercials and go back if she went too far. Not sure if other 3-4yo kids can do this but I am impressed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Wallace
I'd like to add the completely obvious observation that believing your child to be special is far different from believing her to be gifted, particularly when we mean "gifted" in the academic or intellectual sense. I would hope -- although I know this is unfortunately not the case -- that all parents regard their child as special, because they are. However, not every parent truly does regard her or his child as being intellectually advanced. Most parents, I believe (based on observation) regard their child as "bright," but I would argue that this is substantially different from "needs to be advanced three grades," or "read Jane Eyre at four," or "likes calculus in between potty-training sessions."
So, how do you get from working a TV remote and knowing her letters at 4 to ""needs to be advanced three grades," or "read Jane Eyre at four," or "likes calculus in between potty-training sessions.""? THAT'S the difference. The OP's child is bright, not gifted.
So, how do you get from working a TV remote and knowing her letters at 4 to ""needs to be advanced three grades," or "read Jane Eyre at four," or "likes calculus in between potty-training sessions.""? THAT'S the difference. The OP's child is bright, not gifted.
I chose an extreme example -- although I really have seen the Jane Eyre-at-four example -- to call attention to the difference between believing your child to be special (which again, I hope all parents believe) and believing them to be gifted. Sometimes, pointing out examples of extreme giftedness is about the only way (that I can think of, anyway) of differentiating special from gifted or gifted from bright, particularly if participants in a discussion are asserting that "there's no such thing as gifted," or "all children are gifted," which of course means the same thing.
As for the OP's child, I can't comment -- I haven't enough data or expertise to make that determination.
I am a pediatric nurse, and believe me, I have seen my share of parents who think their kids are "gifted". I have even had parents tell me that their kids are "gifted". However, as the kids get older and go to school, where they are interacting with others on a daily basis, it usually becomes apparent that most of these kids are not really "gifted". The parents usually get the drift, once they see that many other kids are doing what their kids are doing.
I am a pediatric nurse, and believe me, I have seen my share of parents who think their kids are "gifted". I have even had parents tell me that their kids are "gifted". However, as the kids get older and go to school, where they are interacting with others on a daily basis, it usually becomes apparent that most of these kids are not really "gifted". The parents usually get the drift, once they see that many other kids are doing what their kids are doing.
Well, I'd like to add a small caveat to what you're saying here. Although I have no doubt that the point of what you're saying is true -- that many parents have inflated notions of their own child's "giftedness" and that exposure to other children puts their own child's intelligence in proper perspective -- I also need to add the idea that many gifted kids go "underground" with their giftedness when they reach school.
There are obviously many reasons why this is so, not the least reason being that very few kids want to stick out and be identified or identifiable as "different." Therefore, the early first-grade reader, for example, might leave his well-thumbed copy of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix at home and basically 'play along' with the kids who are learning to read Bob Books. (Conversely, he or she might be disruptive because of having already mastered the material.)
Unfortunately, many students and some teachers don't accommodate giftedness well -- in one example of which I'm personally aware, a teacher paddled a student for "insubordination": she would not read at the same pace as the others in her reading group. (She read too swiftly.) Few kids want to be different and learn very quickly that camouflaging one's giftedness is generally a better choice to make than revealing it.
Well, most of the kids we see are quite young; the majority three and under, really, so that is where my experience is.
The teacher who paddled the kid should be fired. Hopefully, that was not a recent occurrence. In my experience, girls are more likely to want to be "the same" than boys, who seem to get more kudos for being "smart", etc.
I know this is four days old and everyone is sick of it but I wanted to add a slightly different point of view. I am against those who boast their kids are gifted whether or not they are gifted. But in some cases they have been fighting a different battle and finally having “proof” is a way to be able to stand up for your kid and get between them and other “well meaning” adults. But parents with truly gifted children need support especially, in the early years like any parent with a child that is on the very opposite end of the spectrum. The behavior issues and even some learning disabilities are often very similar. Sadly, everyone thinks, if your kid is gifted, there is either A: something screwy about for saying so or B: your kid doesn’t need what other kids need and should be better behaved and very “Matilda. This is not usually the case. No parent wants their kid to get to the age where they finally have the sex talk, but when they tell you the new exciting thing they learned when reading science book at age 7, it takes a part from you heart. They mature mentally SOOO fast. While sometimes exciting, its not always easy on the parent.
As far as those people who claim “memorization” the same could be said with children who sit in the first grade and memorize sight words or in the third grade memorize their multiplication facts. All learning has an element of memorization and even learning to memorize at a young age is a skill within in itself that could be hint of a gifted child.
Everyone who says 80% hard work, 20 discipline. Imagine…living in an area with a one room schoolhouse. All the children are in the first and second grades but one. That child is in the fourth grade. Do you really expect this child to put forth the effort, even though he knows he’ll get A’s? Hell no! He will be bored out of his mind and will feel awkward in a class with a bunch of little kids. I remember feeling that way. SO bored and sad. I wanted to talk to my first grade teacher about carbon dating and fossils while the other kids where just learning the work extinct for the first time. I was embarrassed to be seen playing the games, singing the songs, and doing the other things kids my age were doing. I was “too” old for that. Not because my parents harped on me being gifted. Rather the opposite. I was an idiot because I was different. What a depressing childhood. Just once I needed to hear one person tell me it was ok to be different and it was my nearly blind 4th greade music teacher of all people. A fifth grade teacher asked me which book I wanted when a bunch of books where donated for the students. I said I thought they were all boring and he pointed out a wonderful one with amazing art and so started my love of art.
I don’t think too many people understand the challenges of having a “gifted” child. They often may excel in many areas but have a learning disability such as dyslexia at the same time. Often they are hyper, extremely, and annoyingly at times, independent. They live everything to the extremes and have many “sensitivities” (like not being able to leave the house until the line on their sock is just right before putting their shoe on. AHHHGG!) They are labeled as ADHD by those who do not know them as well, as well as the ones that do, and even doctors. No one wants to watch them. They may chose not to speak until age four, although they may have said their first word at 4 months. You have relatives say…”I don’t mean to be intruding but I am really concerned about my little loved one. They don’t play with their toys right and don’t seem to have any emotionally connection with anyone around them, they don’t play with other kids and are very “busy” and they don’t speak. I see X same age cousin speaking in full sentences, running to me to share stories with me, wants someone to play, giggles when I tickle them and tells me what they are thinking about.”
This is very devastated to a first time mom. Think about it. Always being told there is something wrong, with this thought weighing on their mind day in and day out for the first 2 to 4 years of their life. This is how it was for us. Turns out our 10 month was sorting her toys by color, texture, and shape. We would find her singing in another language , not just babbling (learned from Sesame Street or Baby Einstein movies) in her room alone but when you walked in would clam up. She didn’t like to be treated like a baby and would shun those caregivers who treated her like one, even me which made me bawl. I thought I was a horrible mom. All I wanted to do was hold her and sing to her but she wouldn’t have it. All kids up to two years older than her where “babies” and she had no interest in playing with them, just running to kiss their boo-boos and mommy them when she felt they needed it. We thought we were doing the right thing at 18 months by putting her into daycare just to get her around kids. She was placed in a highchair to eat, put back into diapers, given a sippy cup, laid in a crib and spoon fed. She shunned the daycare provider and screamed whenever she came near her. The 7 year old daughter had to take care of her. Needless to say we had to pull her out. She no longer did these things at home. She climbed out of her highchair and then moved her plate from the highchair to the table and gave up all the other things too. But the daycare provider did not have experience with kids like her. This little girl sat alone at one month of age, said her first word at four months as well as pulled herself up, she was walking at 7 months and running at 10. She knew her alphabet and could count to 25 at age two, taught herself to read at age 3 and telling us the lifestyle of the butterfly, and now, at age 7, now is doing 6th grade work.
It when she was two I was online searching for answers to my daughter “problem” but she didn’t fall into any category. Our doctor told us we were “cute parents’ and not to worry, she was fine but heard more negative from family. Finally I typed in “plays with toys wrong” and BAM! a small article about young gifted children. Now she was too young to tell for sure but it all lined up just right. Excited, I told everyone, what a relief, it looks like she might be advanced or maybe in gifted.
My sister told me that I needed tough love and that I was looking for something that was not there. I needed to get her tested and treated for ADHD (she was in the medical profession) and that she needed to be able to be ready for school so she needed to be in daycare or preschool. I told her that now that I knew what was wrong, I could be the mom she needed me to be so I believed theses issues would go away and if she proved to be really far ahead, we would home school her. She told me I did not have the qualifications to teach her and it was very concerning cause kids like mine needed special ed teachers. She said if I didn’t get her tested for developmental problems, “someone” was going to eventually call social services on me.
Now I can scream at the top of my lungs “MY DAUGHTER IS GIFTED!” but not I can’t even be just be a proud mom like everyone else cause that’s BRAGGING! How does my daughter take it? We didn’t bother to tell her. We saw a Sylvain Learning Center commercial and was questioning why a boy who looked like a teenager was going there to learn algebra. When she learned that most kids her age don’t do algebra, she wanted to know what they did learn. When I said basic math, like 1+1, she thought I was picking on her. After going online and proving to her, her jaw was sitting on the floor and she asked if she was special. I just laughed at her cause family called her “special” in a different way for so long. “Yes sweetheart, but everyone is special. They are just special in different ways.” She is kind hearted and beautiful, inside an out, unbiased and does her best to not talk above kids her age, though you’ll usually find her playing with her friends older siblings.
My favorite story comes from the day when we finally decided that instead of maybe being gifted, she probably was. At age three, we were out on a family walk. We pointed to a Willow tree and asked her what type of tree it was. (Willow is her name.) “Deciduous?” she asked. We were shocked. “Yup, but what kind, which species?” She was clearly puzzled. We told her it was a willow tree and she made the recognition it was her name. We kept walking and she suddenly stopped, “That tree is part of the ecosystem!” Her dad and I were shocked. “Yup, you’re right sweetheart.” We kept going, discussing where she might have picked that up. But our Little Miss Attitude suddenly stopped, stomping her feet, both hands on her hips, upset that I had not corrected her. “NO MOM! That willow tree is part of the freshwater ecosystem! Hmmh!” and turned curtly to keep walking. And she got reprimanded like any kid should.
She doesn’t exactly fit in with kids her age. She HATES Miley Cyrus cause she screams all the time, only cares about clothes and is a bad role model. (She saw some pics online of her that were…well…Lindsey Lohan in the making and says she’s a disgusting girl. I tend to agree with her but damnit, wish I hadn‘t told her to go look it up when she asked if she was the only person who hated her.) She doesn’t like barbies, dolls, or any “normal” 7 year old toy and is pre-pubescence in most her interests. She like Mad Libs, Scrabble, reading Eragon, Series on Unfortunate Events, Inkheart, among others, Monopoly, and Fact VS. Crap (Which I HATE cause she and her dad have better reasoning skills than I do.) She HATES math cause its too slow but LOVES Algebra cause she says its like a hard puzzle that makes you think. She wants to wear makeup and we have to explain to her, while she is mentally ready for it, she is not physically. And just the other night she wanted to know if Tigers and Lions to mate to make Ligers and killer whales and dolphins make whalphins, could humans also mate with animals to create new species? (Well proves wrong about what everyone says about kids not being able to understand what they read at that age.)
All you can do as a parent is love, do the best you can, provide what you know is right in your heart and do NOT label you kids, with good labels or bad. I was labeled badly and was treated badly by my parents. I had low self esteem and no confidence in my natural skills, even though I was excelled in some areas. My sister on the other hand, was told how great, beautiful and smart she was. She spent every day crying cause she was fitting in right with the “in” crowd, cried if she got even one wrong on a paper and was obsessed with boys. I mean in the way that she thought she was prettier than she was and bawled over rejection and then was pregnant at 17. Both extremes. My little girl is humble, thoughtful of others feelings, understands that some people will like her because she is funny, sweet and loves animals while other will hate her because she is smart. Last year she tried out dance and when asked who the prettiest girl was scratched her head, thought and said Ummm…I think they all are? She complained about a girl squeezing her too hard. Turns out the cubby girl in the class loved her. Well she didn’t even think to shun her like you could see the other girls doing. I am proud of my little girl, gifted or not, I am more proud of who she is turning out to be, despite what she hears some of her family say about her. I know that home schooling her was the best option so that she could learn what she wanted at the rate that was right for her. If she gets caught up on a subject, we can halt other subjects and focus on that until her appetite is gone for it. She is confident with herself and would and is more mature when it comes to talking to and playing with kids her age. She knows she might now like what other kids her age do but they might not like what she does and that is ok. We teach her to play with them as if they are her younger siblings and she is respectful.
_____________
As far as working the TV remote, all three of mine knew at age two, as well as running the DVD player and VCR. By my nephew age four was required to babysit his infant sister, feed her, change her, keep her from getting into things, and also fed himself. He could use the microwave and a knife to open packages! This is because my sister worked late and slept til noon or 2 the next day. Poor kid! Doesn’t make him gifted. Just unfortunate. I tend to think that kids who know how to run the remote and tv at a young age get TOO MUCH TV! (yes mine too, my husband and I had different points of view. At least they watched Discovery, Science, Channel 2, and History mostly) If you leave candy on the table, its cute when they are 1 and they learn to climb on and get to it but not cute anymore when they are 1 and ½ and they are pushing a stool up to highest cupboard to get it down.
If a parent tells me that their child is gifted I'm likely to agree. I've taught hundreds of children, and I have yet to meet a child who failed to exhibit some sort of gift or unique strength.
As for the "gifted and talented" label placed on some children by IQ tests and such, I really don't believe in it. I thought the whole thing was a hoax when I was in one of those programs as a child.
When it comes to children who have a unique talent for learning math and other academic disciplines, I don't really get the idea that they need some kind of special treatment in school. I was bored to tears in my classes as a kid, but learning how to cope in that kind of environment was an important part of learning how to function in society.
My parents offered me the tools and resources to learn at my own (advanced) pace at home. If your child really is gifted academically, go get some self-guided workbooks at their level, and their curiosity will lead them to work in them independently. Give them access to a public library, and the internet. Engage them in conversations about topics from a diverse range of genres, and allow them the time to explore information about these subjects. Sure, it would be nice if their teacher would give them some advanced work, or allow them to work on projects that will keep them engaged, but please remember that their primary job is to make sure that ALL children in their class meet grade level standards.
This kind of educator is what scares me. This is the reason we chose to home school our kids. It is NOT special treatment. It is PREVENTING ABUSE, creating an environment that builds confidence and keeps kids and teachers from shunning the difference they don‘t have the capacity to understand. Children have the RIGHT TO LEARN. And there are oaths that educators take that word the importance of children’s unique abilities. This type of thinking is VERY dangerous for highly gifted kids. Studies have proven time and time again that these children need to be recognized and allowed to move at their own pace. If they are not recognized for their abilities, sometimes they can go to extremes to prove their abilities, good and bad. There is a HUGE difference between talented, gifted, and highly gifted kids. Of course you don’t see much difference with yourself. You may have been talented but if you had been highly gifted, you’d be a college professor vs. a school teacher. You have ZERO clue on the impact you have on these minds. Every little thing you do that dismisses the child’s unique abilities and holds them back, fills them with anger. Not the go home and cry to mom and dad and get notebooks to “play school” with behavior. Rather, look at the studies done. If the child is allowed to excel at their own pace, they will like stay in school, may graduate early and be top students in college. Sadly, if constantly berated, forced to be with kids are mentally 2 or more years younger than they are, they feel like they are being tortured. It is ABUSE plain and simple.
I would be careful to what you say until you read actual factual studies. We ALL agree that children who are below average need more help, often one on one. How would you feel if this poll was called, "Teachers, how do you feel about parents who feel their child needs special ed teachers, speech therapy, and one on one help." You'd be offended as I would be. Highly IQ kids likewise need to be open to a pasture of learning and allowed to graze until their heart content. The consequences of an educators and parents lack of recognition of this problem leads to high rate of high school drop outs within this group of individuals. [SIZE=2][SIZE=2]If you check Forbes magazine's list of billionaires, you'll find that at least 18 of them dropped out of high school. So have 10 Nobel prize winners, dozens of best-selling authors and 8 U.S. presidents. [/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=2]Einstein, Billy Joel, Jim Carrey, Tom Cruise, and Bill Gates are all drop outs. When you read about what their elementary teachers say about them, is “They have been bright, however, they were class clowns, always getting into trouble for being disruptive.” While the child said “I was bored,” and do not believe they were being bad. They may try to be funny and see if their teacher knows Roman Numerals by answering their math questions in them in grade two, or skipping school at age eight to sneak back in the house after mom and dad left for work to watch something on Nova, or refusing to do work with the logic that they do not need to keep doing something they already know. It is an OBLIGATION you have as an educator to provide them with a challenge. If berated for being different, treated as an outcast by students and teachers alike, or being abused at home, you NEED to acknowledge this and help make it STOP. Why? Think of Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, John Wayne Gacy, Jeffery Dahlmer. ALL of these people were known to have issues with teachers and kids in school, along with abuse at home. Those who finally snap are great at what they do and are very organized, however crazy they are. From organizing gangs to becoming these scary serial killers. It is not always the case but the chances are higher. These kids NEED your help, just like children on the opposite end of the spectrum. You have NO idea how much impact you have on them and how easily it is for them to go off the deep end. You are educator not pyscholgist and I am begining to think that educators should have both degrees.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]
I speak from personal experience. Trust me these kids NEED YOU!
Real life is not often about doing something you find unpleasant. You may like teaching but dread the aspects of, although understand that is part of the job. But if you HATED teaching, you would find a career that you enjoyed. Life is not about torturing yourself. If you hated gardening, would you force yourself to do it? No. If you don’t like to watch anime movies, would you have friends who watch them nearly exclusively? Absolutely not. Part of your JOB as an educator, whether it is an unpleasant part of your JOB or not, it to ENCOURAGE kids to be themselves.
My daughter never wants to attend public school. She asks me “Why do grownups treat me like a baby? They treat me like I am stupid.” “Well sweetheart many don’t understand that you are different. Others don’t believe you should be allowed to be different.” in another conversation… “Well If I went to school and my teacher made me do things like 1+1 over and over and made me read baby books, I would NOT do it. I would ignore them and tell them that I want to do algebra and read the Baudelaires or something.” My response. “You would be feeling like someone is talking down to you. When adults or kids do that to each other, ignoring them is a common reaction. I remember ignoring my teachers and I thought the kids my age all acted like babies. But a more effect way is to talk to them and let them know you are different and you want to stay that way. Ask if they are ok with you doing more challenging work and look for friends who have common interests. If they ignore you mature request, then I would find that ignoring them is an appropriate action. But to make it easier for teachers who were not taught to teach kids like you and to keep learning fun for you, we home school. You also have our permission to let us know if there is something you feel you have learned enough about.” We also encourage her to let adults know if she finds something boring and to have the confidence to ask for the things she wants to do. If the adult says no, then say you are not enjoying your time and ask to go home.
[/SIZE]The whole concept of intelligence is dealt with in an overly simplistic manner. Intelligence is an extremely complex phenomenon that we still don't entirely understand and can't even really agree on a definition for. We also can't agree on what methods are best for testing it. There are many aspects of intelligence, and it manifests itself in many different ways, and can work differently for different people; take people with Asperger's Syndrome for instance. They tend to be very intelligent and are excellent in memorization, logic, deductive reasoning and creativity but have difficulty with abstract concepts and generalizations (condensing observations and facts into a larger picture using inductive reasoning) and applying things they know to new situations. Also, there are many other personality traits and environmental factors that can lead a person in whatever direction they end up. It is an educators job to help every single individual.
One thing is for certain, these minds need someone there when they are kids. Most educators open their hearts to children falling behind. Likewise, they need to open their hearts to another type of challenge that some kids face that can cause them to be shunned and berated. These children need someone to hear them, even if it’s a counseling session once a week to help them deal with some of the issues or a teacher with a deeper understanding that brings all the kids from all grade levels together once a week to talk with each other and build friendships and mentors. Its not special treatment but rather emotional therapy.
I am not a mother who “thinks” my child is gifted. I am a parent of a child whose mind is so complex that I will not be able to teach her after another two or three years and will need to continue schooling online with invisible teachers trained in working with kids like her. I don’t care for parents who say “Yeah, my daughter is gifted too. She loves school, has lots of friends and is in advanced classes.” Talk to me when you are in tears, devastated that your child may be suicidal at age nine because they don’t know how to deal with the torture of fellow students and teachers but pretends to be an adult online so that they can find friends with common interests. Very scary isn’t it? Don’t force them to go underground. Don’t force them to snap. Be there for them. Although smarter than some of us, they are still children. Screw what the parents think about them. Screw what mainstream crap you were taught in college and can be read in magazines. Do what you know is right in your heart.
[SIZE=2][/SIZE]
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
All children are gifted
