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At the risk of knocking 10 points off of my IQ for mentioning it (JK Aconite) when I was tested as a child I had a 135 IQ. I met many people who were just as smart. I don't think 135 is exceptional, just above average, but it did qualify for the gifted program.
Only for Mensa. I might even further restrict that to "only to Mensa and only in singles' clubs".
How do you know this? Surely you aren't going around asking them?
You don't need to ask a gifted adult if they're gifted. They stand out. I'm talking truely gifted as in capable of exceptional performance. Now if you want to call giftedness a meaningless score on a test, then I wouldn't know but what good is a score on a test if everything about you is average? Is that really giftedness? I don't think so.
I've scored as high as 143 on IQ tests. Does that make me gifted? Nope. It just means I tested well one day. It's obvious gifted people are gifted. If it's not obvious, their gifts don't matter IF they actually have them. So why call them gifted in the first place? Because they got a certain score on a test that means nothing WRT real life? I can do that and I'm not even close to gifted. I just have a lot of education so I do well in IQ tests. I test higher now than I did when I was 10 but that's just a reflection of my education.
Edited to add: I've taken several IQ tests, the first in 4th grade. Three more in a psych class which were designed to show how meaningless these tests are plus a couple more for fun. I scored in the genius range on one, high normal on another and three points shy of average on the third in that psych class. All were "official" IQ tests had they been taken in a provably controlled environment. So I guess I can pick from 143, 135 and 97. Doesn't really matter given all three allow for an engineering degree or a teaching degree. If I had to assign myself a number, it would be something around 120. That's about where my accomplishments come in and that's what really matters. The score on a test is meaningless without followthrough.
You don't need to ask a gifted adult if they're gifted. They stand out. I'm talking truely gifted as in capable of exceptional performance. Now if you want to call giftedness a meaningless score on a test, then I wouldn't know but what good is a score on a test if everything about you is average? Is that really giftedness? I don't think so.
I've scored as high as 143 on IQ tests. Does that make me gifted? Nope. It just means I tested well one day. It's obvious gifted people are gifted. If it's not obvious, their gifts don't matter IF they actually have them. So why call them gifted in the first place? Because they got a certain score on a test that means nothing WRT real life?
Schools are precisely what rely on one day's score on one test to define giftedness. I rarely hear the term used in the non-school world except vis-a-vis "gifted violinist" or something of the sort. There is, aside from Mensa (which is voluntary), no subset of "gifted adults" separated from the rest of society artificially and tracked into specific employment, social groups, or housing. Hence my assertion that, outside schools and their fondness for boxes and labels, it's really not something most people rely upon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
I've scored as high as 143 on IQ tests. Does that make me gifted? Nope. It just means I tested well one day. It's obvious gifted people are gifted.
If it's not obvious, their gifts don't matter IF they actually have them. So why call them gifted in the first place? Because they got a certain score on a test that means nothing WRT real life?
Probably it is, insofar as a generally different outlook on things. If you're equating "gifted" and "high achieving", then I feel obliged to point out you are using a non-standard definition.
If you'll check just about any source material which defines giftedness (I believe Hoagie's is a fairly standard source for online discussion) you'll note that one of the many hallmarks of giftedness is a tendency to shoot one's self in the foot (metaphorically speaking of course). "Working up to one's potential" sounds great on paper, but is by no means a given.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Edited to add: I've taken several IQ tests, the first in 4th grade. Three more in a psych class which were designed to show how meaningless these tests are plus a couple more for fun.
They're actually not "meaningless" (I question the platform of a psychology professor who would make that claim). They can be misused, in the hands of those with an axe to grind or those who are unfamiliar with the subtleties of each individual test. That's why reputable professionals caution potential clients to choose their practitioner carefully.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
If I had to assign myself a number, it would be something around 120. That's about where my accomplishments come in and that's what really matters. The score on a test is meaningless without followthrough.
Well, of course that depends upon how one defines "followthrough". If one defines it narrowly, by the number of post-doctorates or by one's Dilbert-like ability to work in a cubicle for a middle-class lifestyle, I think the creative thinking inherent in giftedness is sorely lacking, or has been beat into submission.
I would say 120 might be my estimation, based purely on posting with you.
You don't need to ask a gifted adult if they're gifted. They stand out. I'm talking truely gifted as in capable of exceptional performance. Now if you want to call giftedness a meaningless score on a test, then I wouldn't know but what good is a score on a test if everything about you is average? Is that really giftedness? I don't think so.
I've scored as high as 143 on IQ tests. Does that make me gifted? Nope. It just means I tested well one day. It's obvious gifted people are gifted. If it's not obvious, their gifts don't matter IF they actually have them. So why call them gifted in the first place? Because they got a certain score on a test that means nothing WRT real life?
With all due respect, this is not always the case.
Take the case of this collector of streetcar transfers who worked at menial jobs for a large portion of his adult life. To most people who dealt with him on a daily basis, it was by no means obvious that he was gifted.
His name was William James Sidis, probably one of the greatest geniuses the human race has ever produced.
His I.Q. was conservatively estimated to be between 250 and 300. As the Wikipedia article will tell you, he could read the New York Times by 18 months and had taught himself eight languages by the time he was eight years old. He entered Harvard at the age of eleven.
Unfortunately, media exposure and the just plain inability of society to be able to deal with what one researcher has called the "nature's gambit" of such precocious intelligence led him to abandon his researches and lead a sort of Good Will Hunting existence. He was a man for whom society had no place. He had about as much in common with the average person as the average person has with a clever chimpanzee. Not a lot for the two of them to talk about.
His gifts mattered. They mattered a lot. They were the source and reason for his exclusion for his entire life.
You're absolutely right in saying the tests don't matter. You're right. The condition they measure does. To use an analogy, the temperature recorded on a thermometer doesn't matter; the fact that the patient may die of a fever does.
With all due respect, this is not always the case.
Take the case of this collector of streetcar transfers who worked at menial jobs for a large portion of his adult life. To most people who dealt with him on a daily basis, it was by no means obvious that he was gifted.
His name was William James Sidis, probably one of the greatest geniuses the human race has ever produced.
His I.Q. was conservatively estimated to be between 250 and 300. As the Wikipedia article will tell you, he could read the New York Times by 18 months and had taught himself eight languages by the time he was eight years old. He entered Harvard at the age of eleven.
Unfortunately, media exposure and the just plain inability of society to be able to deal with what one researcher has called the "nature's gambit" of such precocious intelligence led him to abandon his researches and lead a sort of Good Will Hunting existence. He was a man for whom society had no place. He had about as much in common with the average person as the average person has with a clever chimpanzee. Not a lot for the two of them to talk about.
His gifts mattered. They mattered a lot. They were the source and reason for his exclusion for his entire life.
You're absolutely right in saying the tests don't matter. You're right. The condition they measure does. To use an analogy, the temperature recorded on a thermometer doesn't matter; the fact that the patient may die of a fever does.
Sorry but there's no evidence of giftedness if all you rise to is menial jobs. IF there are any gifts there, and I'd question whether they're really there, what good are they? Allowing his "gifts" to isolate him is just an excuse. If he was gifted, why not use them and surround yourself with equally gifted people? A score on a test is meaningless unless you do something with it.
I have a friend who is like this. On paper, she's gifted. In real life, she's below average. Of course she plays a mean game of Trivial Pursuit, lol. Her gifts don't matter. Other than they make her feel like a failure. The problem is, she's really not gifted. At least not gifted enough to stand out.
Sorry but there's no evidence of giftedness if all you rise to is menial jobs. IF there are any gifts there, and I'd question whether they're really there, what good are they? Allowing his "gifts" to isolate him is just an excuse. If he was gifted, why not use them and surround yourself with equally gifted people? A score on a test is meaningless unless you do something with it.
I have a friend who is like this. On paper, she's gifted. In real life, she's below average. Of course she plays a mean game of Trivial Pursuit, lol. Her gifts don't matter. Other than they make her feel like a failure. The problem is, she's really not gifted. At least not gifted enough to stand out.
Being intellectually gifted doesn't make you a social success.
Being intellectually gifted doesn't make you a social success.
I wasn't speaking to social success. I was talking about life. Education, career, etc, etc, etc...
Being gifted should make you something unusual. If all you ever do is average stuff, where are the gifts? If "gifted" adults turn out no different than the rest of us, why even have the distinction? The test score, itself, means nothing. It's just a number if there is nothing to back it up.
I have met some, truely, gifted people and they stand out. There's a reason for the distinction. A reason for accomodations. We all walked on eggshells around one resident genius. He was brilliant but had the social skills of a house fly. You just wanted to swat him . But he was well worth the trouble.
I worked for two men who were way up there. One I coached in social skills as he had a desire to walk into a room and not stand out like a sore thumb. I also had a couple of professors who could put things together in amazing ways. Pretty much everyone else I've met along the way was some degree of normal. Good but nothing to write home about.
As I said, I can get the test score. It means nothing though because I am not gifted.
Sorry but there's no evidence of giftedness if all you rise to is menial jobs. IF there are any gifts there, and I'd question whether they're really there, what good are they? Allowing his "gifts" to isolate him is just an excuse. If he was gifted, why not use them and surround yourself with equally gifted people? A score on a test is meaningless unless you do something with it.
I have a friend who is like this. On paper, she's gifted. In real life, she's below average. Of course she plays a mean game of Trivial Pursuit, lol. Her gifts don't matter. Other than they make her feel like a failure. The problem is, she's really not gifted. At least not gifted enough to stand out.
Ivory, did you read the full post? Did you also read the Wikipedia article? If so, I sincerely would advise that you give them a peek, because without that information, what you're saying lacks persuasive value. Like intellectual impairment, giftedness is not solely determined by your job.
Rather, common sense suggests the opposite: that one's job is determined by one's I.Q., not the other way around. In the case of Sidis, however, his extraordinary I.Q. had a profound effect on his acceptance by society and his continuing desire to "hide" in a menial profession. Really, please do read the information; I think you will find it illuminating.
So be careful of what you hope/wish for b/c where is the title of "gifted" REALLY going to get your kid in the long run?
There is always someone a little more "gifted" and a little smarter.
This I agree with. Who the heck would tell their kid they are the smartest, or dumbest, kid out there? Just let them learn at their own pace and tell them that they are special, important, and that you are proud of them but don't tack on other titles. Our DD, 7, just realized that she is ahead, sometimes wondering why her cousin a year younger couldn't read yet, ect. but we always made sure to point out something she (or whoever) could do better than her and said it was because everyone is different. She excepts that. That is also a large reason why we homeschool...so it's not in her face everyday.
Sorry but there's no evidence of giftedness if all you rise to is menial jobs. IF there are any gifts there, and I'd question whether they're really there, what good are they? Allowing his "gifts" to isolate him is just an excuse. If he was gifted, why not use them and surround yourself with equally gifted people? A score on a test is meaningless unless you do something with it.
I have a friend who is like this. On paper, she's gifted. In real life, she's below average. Of course she plays a mean game of Trivial Pursuit, lol. Her gifts don't matter. Other than they make her feel like a failure. The problem is, she's really not gifted. At least not gifted enough to stand out.
Who fostered his intelligence? Who gave him the chance? Chances are he lived a life where everyone in his life probably told him that he was not "normal" and that being normal was the purpose of life. Kind of like what public school does to public...conform or die socially!
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. But he was well worth the trouble. 
