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Oh, I could tell you stories about one genius engineer I worked with. The things this man did. I'm amazed he's still allive. At least I think he's still alive. I haven't seen him in a couple of years. He was brilliant but he just couldn't do anything the normal way. He once tried to cut a tree down by rigging a chain saw up on ropes and pulleys so he wouldn't have to actually climb the tree .
And we knew the computer system was going down every time he did an update. You just planned on it. Once he found his bug, we were fine until the next upgrade . He was brilliant though. He managed things no one else could. Just not in a normal way but that's what made him as valuable as he is. He can do things in non normal ways. He thinks outside of the box. In fact, he lives outside of the box. I don't think he's ever seen the inside of one
I would agree on the assessment in red-- the world absolutely needs people like your friend. I'm not finding that they are particularly valued in our local schools, however. In fact, a few parents I know have been told they really needed to concentrate more on teaching their children to "pass" (in the social rather than scholastic sense) and less on developing any gifts they might have.
I would agree on the assessment in red-- the world absolutely needs people like your friend. I'm not finding that they are particularly valued in our local schools, however. In fact, a few parents I know have been told they really needed to concentrate more on teaching their children to "pass" (in the social rather than scholastic sense) and less on developing any gifts they might have.
You have to ask yourself what the purpose of school is. Is it to cater to the individual needs of every child (an impossible task) or to make sure we have an educated society? The school/society has to decide where it's worthwhile to put your effort. Is it more important to teach 20 kids to read or make sure 10 get AP chemistry? If there were unlimited funds for eduction, we wouldn't have to make the choice but there aren't so we do.
Because we don't have funding and personnel to do everything, we have to decide what is important. While I'd love to see my dd on a program that fit her to a T, that program wouldn't serve 99% of her peers and it wouldnt' really make a difference for her. She's up there no matter what you do with her. I could take her out of school for two years and do nothing and she wouldn't miss a beat. Is she really the child we need to be spending money on?
The fact is we can't cater to every child. We wouldn't want to if we could. The message we'd be sending to our kids is that others must cater to them rather than they must adust to work with others. I can't imagine a society where everyone thinks they come first and that's what we'd have if we catered to everyone's individual tastes. We'd have a generation of peple who think they need to be catered to. I don't want to go there. Sure my dd could go faster, learn more, go deeper but a better lesson for her to learn is that she is one of many and she must do some adjusting to society.
You have to ask yourself what the purpose of school is. Is it to cater to the individual needs of every child (an impossible task) or to make sure we have an educated society? Is she really the child we need to be spending money on?
This argument can be applied to special education for children who are behind, have autism, etc....
But, that would be politically incorrect.
Those smart kids don't need any enrichment I guess. If they want to advance, they can come home after being on the bus or at school from 730 to 4pm and then find a way to take advanced math/science/English/language classes on their own on top of doing their regular homework and getting some physical activity.
Once you reach middle school/high school level, many schools are more willing to compact curriculum and put freshmen in classes traditionally reserved for juniors, but it can be a fight.
Identifying children as gifted is one of the methods parents and teachers can use to implement techniques such as allowing a 4th grader to take math with the 6th graders, or justify a freshman taking classes normally reserved for juniors.
You have to ask yourself what the purpose of school is. Is it to cater to the individual needs of every child (an impossible task) or to make sure we have an educated society? The school/society has to decide where it's worthwhile to put your effort. Is it more important to teach 20 kids to read or make sure 10 get AP chemistry? If there were unlimited funds for eduction, we wouldn't have to make the choice but there aren't so we do.
"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". Which is fine, if you're an acountant or an afficionado of Philosophy Via Star Trek. From the standpoint of a parent of a child whose rights to FAPE are protected by law, I'm fully cognizant that schools do not have to provide the optimum in education-- only what's "appropriate". Problem is, they haven't offered that to her, either.
I don't know why other people homeschool. Don't much care. I care that those who need to or even just wish to do something different have the freedoms to do so. Since we still have to pay for a service we don't use, I don't see why you (plural you, Ivory, this isn't all about you specifically) care, honestly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
The fact is we can't cater to every child. We wouldn't want to if we could. The message we'd be sending to our kids is that others must cater to them rather than they must adust to work with others. I can't imagine a society where everyone thinks they come first and that's what we'd have if we catered to everyone's individual tastes. We'd have a generation of peple who think they need to be catered to. I don't want to go there. Sure my dd could go faster, learn more, go deeper but a better lesson for her to learn is that she is one of many and she must do some adjusting to society.
This is the same tired argument administrators throw at SpEd parents on a regular basis. First of all, no one's asking you to cater to every kid. Schools are being asked to individualize for those who need that to acquire a Free and Appropriate Public Education. And they're unwilling to do that, which is a darn shame since it's required by federal law.
Then you turn around and whine because we find a way to get those needs met elsewhere.
Sounds to me like what you really want is people to sit down and shut up and be happy with whatever pittance you bestow. Well, it's not happening, bay-bee.
This argument can be applied to special education for children who are behind, have autism, etc....
But, that would be politically incorrect.
Those smart kids don't need any enrichment I guess. If they want to advance, they can come home after being on the bus or at school from 730 to 4pm and then find a way to take advanced math/science/English/language classes on their own on top of doing their regular homework and getting some physical activity.
Once you reach middle school/high school level, many schools are more willing to compact curriculum and put freshmen in classes traditionally reserved for juniors, but it can be a fight.
Identifying children as gifted is one of the methods parents and teachers can use to implement techniques such as allowing a 4th grader to take math with the 6th graders, or justify a freshman taking classes normally reserved for juniors.
Trust me, it's done, and routinely. Gods help your child if s/he is ESE AND gifted.
You have to ask yourself what the purpose of school is. Is it to cater to the individual needs of every child (an impossible task) or to make sure we have an educated society? The school/society has to decide where it's worthwhile to put your effort. Is it more important to teach 20 kids to read or make sure 10 get AP chemistry? If there were unlimited funds for eduction, we wouldn't have to make the choice but there aren't so we do.
Because we don't have funding and personnel to do everything, we have to decide what is important. While I'd love to see my dd on a program that fit her to a T, that program wouldn't serve 99% of her peers and it wouldnt' really make a difference for her. She's up there no matter what you do with her. I could take her out of school for two years and do nothing and she wouldn't miss a beat. Is she really the child we need to be spending money on?
The fact is we can't cater to every child. We wouldn't want to if we could. The message we'd be sending to our kids is that others must cater to them rather than they must adust to work with others. I can't imagine a society where everyone thinks they come first and that's what we'd have if we catered to everyone's individual tastes. We'd have a generation of peple who think they need to be catered to. I don't want to go there. Sure my dd could go faster, learn more, go deeper but a better lesson for her to learn is that she is one of many and she must do some adjusting to society.
If public school can't cater to the individual needs of each child then by golly wow it is wise for parents to consider home schooling where their child can be educated and nurtured as the individual they are!
If public school can't cater to the individual needs of each child then by golly wow it is wise for parents to consider home schooling where their child can be educated and nurtured as the individual they are!
Becasue it's not in a child's best interest to be catered to. It's not best for them to grow up thinking they count more than everyone else and thier way the best way. There is value in learning that others count too and learning to adapt to a world that tries to be fair to all but can't cater to anyone, really.
Why do you think catering to a child rather than expecting them to learn to adapt is a good thing? Catering to individuals is not what society is about. Schools mirror and serve society.
It isn't the intent of the public schools to cater to the individual. We aren't trying to raise a bunch of individuals who think they need to be catered to. That would be a nightmare.
If public school can't cater to the individual needs of each child then by golly wow it is wise for parents to consider home schooling where their child can be educated and nurtured as the individual they are!
::using Tuborg as launching point for tangent (sorry Tu)::
I don't think anyone (well, any reasonable human) expects the schools to "cater to" (and what an emotionally loaded phrase that is!) each individual need of each individual child. Even with a class size cap, seven hour class days would allow at best 20 minutes per child. (Even when we're humming along nicely, I need more than that.) ESE kids are not "every child", of course, but most of us know that.
Generally, public school allows for an average education for average kids. There are, of course, flashes of brilliance and flashes of dreadfulness on the school's part. (One hopes the flashes of brilliance outweigh the other.) Educationally it's kind of like Olive Garden-- decent, filling, but overall not exceptional at either end. Individual diets can be accomodated, and legally, they must, in most cases. Doesn't mean it'll be done well, either, unfortunately.
The problem I see is if someone wants other-than-average for whatever reason (to beat a metaphor to death, maybe they have celiac disease or a milk allergy, or even just don't like Italian food). In that case, they may need to seek other options. Limiting those options (or telling them you'll be the one to decide if they require a gluten-free meal) is not a good way to ensure excellence, or even to get needs met.
Becasue it's not in a child's best interest to be catered to.
In the case of ESE (including gifted in several instances), state and federal law disagree. I think their opinion probably trumps yours.
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. 
. He was brilliant though. He managed things no one else could. Just not in a normal way 
