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Old 04-07-2010, 08:03 AM
 
28,803 posts, read 47,753,206 times
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Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
This is disconcerting to read. I have three relatives with advanced degrees in history. Would love to read some info on where the OP obtained this data.
You will never see that data posted. The "information" in the post is pulled out of who-knows-where during some meeting of ill-educated "reactionaries" that are dissatisfied with their lives and have to blame someone since nothing that happens to them is ever their fault...
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Old 04-07-2010, 08:11 AM
 
191 posts, read 458,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitts10yrs View Post
.The 2nd Amendment, therefore, must ultimately be dismantled or rendered too expensive to exercise as a right, for it is the people's guarantee of the rest of them.
Wait, what does this have to do with teaching history? The original OP is all over the place, with nothing to back up any of the statements.

Further, I am a teacher in a middle school and currently our 6th grade students are spending their entire year on American History that is pre-Civil War. This is the required curriculum in the county.

I too am concerned with the Federal Government sticking their fingers constantly into education, especially considering that their committees often don't contain a single actual educator. However, let's stick with actual facts as we fight this battle. There is plenty that falls into that realm to get fired up about.
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Old 04-07-2010, 08:13 AM
 
191 posts, read 458,331 times
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Originally Posted by GottaBMe View Post
Read the book, FedEd: The New Federal Curriculum and How it's Enforced, by Allen Quist (College Professor,former Minnesota State Representative and two time candidate for governor) if you want to really learn what is happening in the public schools. You will see how schools are being transformed "from institutions of learning to centers of social engineering." The book provides verifiable facts and numbers not just opinions. It is a short but informative, enlightening read. Check out the reviews at Amazon.

I will read this. However, I also encourage everyone to read things written in rebuttal to this book (like in scholarly journals, etc). I think it is important to always read both sides and try to find the truth in the middle.

I had not heard of this book....sounds interesting.
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Old 04-07-2010, 11:14 AM
 
1,476 posts, read 2,027,278 times
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Originally Posted by ccr4tigers View Post
I will read this. However, I also encourage everyone to read things written in rebuttal to this book (like in scholarly journals, etc). I think it is important to always read both sides and try to find the truth in the middle.

I had not heard of this book....sounds interesting.
Fair enough! Please post if you find anything on the otherside that you would recommend. But I must tell you that I recently moved to a very liberal area and am seeing this play out in the school here. It is disheartening. My child's entire 5th grade year has been almost total social/political indoctrination, with very little concrete learning. I was mystified at what I was seeing and began to do some research. I am now beginning to understand what is happening.
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Old 04-07-2010, 02:53 PM
 
10,624 posts, read 26,767,081 times
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As a historian who has had had some experience with schools and history curriculums, I heartily disagree that pre-Civil War American history is being "pushed out" of the classrooms.

Admittedly the parameters of what is studied has been broadened -- which I think is a good thing -- so there's a lot more to cover, but really, there is no need to fear that kids aren't going to be exposed to seventeenth and eighteenth century history.

I agree that curriculum standards and mandates are a serious issue (just look at Texas!), but the original post in this thread is obviously based on second-hand fear-mongering. It's pure politics, and distracts from the real issues where those of us from a broad range of political viewpoints could probably find common ground.

Most historians (and teachers of history) that I know believe strongly that studying history is a way to encourage thinking. In other words, it's not just about memorizing a list of "facts." It's about learning to evaluate the evidence, ponder different viewpoints, and come to a conclusion of one's own. That view, though, can be scary to people on both sides of the political spectrum. (and while the OP says he/she wants more early American history, I think it's a safe bet -- based on the tone and rhetoric of the post -- to assume that that means teaching from a restricted viewpoint that supports his own current political views).

And while I think the OP is totally wrong and ill informed, I would agree that there is some truth in that some things are always going to be highlighted over others. In theory standards and curriculums help to balance out those biases, but obviously they also open up whole new cans of worms.
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Old 04-07-2010, 03:07 PM
 
9,803 posts, read 16,215,710 times
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---learning to evaluate the evidence---

And that gives a lot of room for the teachers' political slant to be interjected.

Seems ,with one of my kids history teacher, she was always looking at wars etc from the perspective of-------" what did the US do wrong that caused this to happen"
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Old 04-07-2010, 03:24 PM
 
1,639 posts, read 4,711,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
---learning to evaluate the evidence---

And that gives a lot of room for the teachers' political slant to be interjected.

Seems ,with one of my kids history teacher, she was always looking at wars etc from the perspective of-------" what did the US do wrong that caused this to happen"
You forgot to include the rest of the quote: "...ponder different viewpoints, and come to a conclusion of one's own"

See, it's not so scary now
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Old 04-07-2010, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, Ca
2,883 posts, read 5,898,132 times
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History taught in schools is about as sanitized as a disney book, to the tell the truth.

-Not just with wars, but in terms of government always solving the problem. The history classes I had in the 90's in highschool taught me...

-We "solved depressions". They don't happen anymore.
-"Bad times" have been solved. Like the wild boom & bust cycles of the 19th century. The Federal Reserve is there to "smooth things out".
-People were basically ignorant and didn't know what was going on...whether in the 19th century, or in the 30's when FDR confiscated peoples gold. Or bank panics. We solved them and "stabilized" that.
-Mass murders and genocides don't really happen anymore (like in WWII).
-All american figures (from George Washington to Alan Greenspan) were good.

I think pictures are presented in history books, so you're really unable to distingush one from another. George Washington's portrait. Andrew Jackson's portrait. FDR. Kennedy. Greenspan. They're all good noble figures. It's a subtle inference.

-I think the books also sort of make light of past robber barons and powerful financial figures. Like a cartoon drawing of Rockefeller, next to his Standard Oil Trust. He doesn't seem very intimidating or powerful. He's treated in sort of a light, lampooned way. And you wonder why people get caught off guard now with Goldman Sachs, Paulson, and other modern day robber barons. History books don't make you question powerful authority figures.

It may have been child labor supporting robber barons 100 years ago. It's a different type of labor supporting them now. I think history books make modern problems invisible.
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Old 04-07-2010, 05:28 PM
 
10,624 posts, read 26,767,081 times
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Studying history is ALWAYS about personal opinion. There's absolutely no way to leave out personal bias. A good history teacher is open about that, and will encourage the students to keep that always in mind when reading textbooks, original source material, reading or listening to interviews, etc. And while there are also always going to be teachers who want to inappropriately interject their own opinions (of all sorts) into their classrooms, I don't believe a standardized curriculum is going to prevent that. In the hands of a good teacher, though, it's exactly that potential to get students to think critically about the interpretation and presentation of facts, the difference between fact and opinion, how to evaluate sources, etc., that gives the study of history, especially at the K-12 level, value beyond just knowing what happened when and where.

I was lucky to mostly have had good history teachers while in school, but I can definitely think of a couple of really bad ones. Unfortunately sometimes I think that it's easier for poor history teachers to slip through the cracks than poor teachers from other subjects. I also realized while working as an advisor in my college's History department that when I asked students what kind of career they hoped to pursue it was far more often the poorest students who were most likely to answer "become a history teacher!" I never did figure that one out. Thank goodness there are many very, very good and dedicated history and social studies teachers out there (I know and have worked with plenty of them!), but I know there's also room for improvement.
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Old 04-07-2010, 06:15 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,763,236 times
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Originally Posted by Pitts10yrs View Post
There is a concerted effort in public schools to phase out teaching of US History earlier than the civil war, and teaching on the civil war only because of the slavery issue. There is a reason for this, of course, and that is because teaching of US History in the Revolutionary period requires the students to actually know the reasons for the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and if they know and understand those, then they will inevitably recognize the inherent dangers that big government is.

We have all seen the conditioning of the children to cameras and basic intrusions of their fundamental rights. Teach them early and often that 'the camera is everywhere', and they will accept it as completely normal.

The 2nd Amendment, therefore, must ultimately be dismantled or rendered too expensive to exercise as a right, for it is the people's guarantee of the rest of them.

The government is testing the waters of limits on free speech and freedom of the press, using 'hate crimes' and 'hate speech' legislation. As long as We the People don't push back, it will continue.
I think you maybe mistaken. Here in NJ high school students MUST take US history 1 and US history 2 (both full year courses) to graduate.

New Jersey High School Graduation Requirements (N.J.A.C. 6A:8-5)

My children spent the entire 1st marking period and half of the next on the revolutionary war, the constitution, and the forming of this nation. And not for nothing, NJ is very liberal so I find it hard to believe more conservative states are doing that. Do you have a source?
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