Tennessee's obsession with checking IDs/ Underage Drinking (Knoxville: home, purchasing)

[Geneyus]

In the Shelby County, there are people who buy alcohol with underage ID's to see if you are checking. If you sell alcohol to a minor, you are arrested (summons) and your business loses its license to sell alcohol for a while. Better safe than sorry.

That being said, there is still an underage drinking problem. When I was in high school a long time ago, we would go to bad parts of Memphis and pay a homeless guy to buy us alcohol. We would let them keep the change, and they were glad to do it. I've heard some stores have employees who sell alcohol to their underage friends only, and those people sell/give it to others. It's hard to catch them when they only sell it to people they know. Then you always have the parents who want to be cool in front of minors, which is silly, so they buy alcohol for them. I work in law enforcement, and I've pulled over many juveniles with alcohol in their vehicle, and I've been to many calls involving juveniles with alcohol poisoning. I think we need to do the best we can to prevent it, but underage drinking will happen one way or another. Some folks have resorted to drinking cough syrup, scope, etc.

[danielj72]

Originally Posted by DonCorleone

My thoughts exactly.

If I recall, the previous law was something along the lines of: if the customer appears 35 or older, you don't have to card them; but if they look younger than 35, card them. Which is common sense, but when the law is subject to personal judgement of someone's age it offers some grey area. Plus, it takes away that indignant factor customers might throw up ("can't you tell I'm 21", etc) because the law is written to card everyone.

I have a favorite wine store I go to and they know me personally. I'm there every week. They still ask (apologetically and with a towards the law), assuming I don't already have my ID out to show them. It doesn't bother me in the least, however.

It will be interesting to see if it does have the intended effect of cutting down on minors being able to buy alcohol. I'd like to think it will, but I suspect it won't...as others have mentioned there are still lots of places that don't even ask. Ideally, it protects both merchants and minors. But only if the merchants follow the law.

I seriously doubt that it will affect the amount of minors drinking. There seems to never be a shortage of people who will buy for them, or places that do not follow the law. The drinking age laws are about as disrespected as the 55 mph speed limit was in the 70s and 80s. For a law to be enforceable it has to have the support of a higher percentage of the public than the drinking age does. Most people feel a bit hypocritical crusading for tougher under age drinking laws when most of us remember breaking the very same laws when we were 19. The reality is that no one has ever supported those laws enough to follow them when they were the ones the laws were being enforced against.

[tmford87]

Interesting discussion. I'm from New Orleans and went to bars regularly from age 18. I never got carded there and honestly I'm not really one that looks old for their age. It was an adjustment moving up here. It really doesn't bother me at all - to be honest, I'm more annoyed by the ridiculously low speed limits on interstate in Memphis. Interesting to hear that this is the norm around the country - I had assumed that it was linked to the bible belt. A lot of these laws seem to have a religious background that doesn't seem to make much sense with our supposed separation of church and state.

I guess I'm biased because we could buy hard liquor through a drive through on a Sunday morning, but I really think that creating this stigma around drinking makes the problem worse. I think if we removed the stigma, we wouldn't have to be so crazy about enforcement. I like to equate it to sex ed in schools - though it may pain us to see them growing up, we need to educate them on how to do it responsibly and not rely on the delusion of abstinence. The longer we keep trying to tell our teens it's wrong for them to do, but perfectly fine for us to do, the longer the problem will persist.

[BirdieBelle]

Originally Posted by tmford87

Interesting discussion. I'm from New Orleans and went to bars regularly from age 18. I never got carded there and honestly I'm not really one that looks old for their age. It was an adjustment moving up here. It really doesn't bother me at all - to be honest, I'm more annoyed by the ridiculously low speed limits on interstate in Memphis. Interesting to hear that this is the norm around the country - I had assumed that it was linked to the bible belt. A lot of these laws seem to have a religious background that doesn't seem to make much sense with our supposed separation of church and state.

I guess I'm biased because we could buy hard liquor through a drive through on a Sunday morning, but I really think that creating this stigma around drinking makes the problem worse. I think if we removed the stigma, we wouldn't have to be so crazy about enforcement. I like to equate it to sex ed in schools - though it may pain us to see them growing up, we need to educate them on how to do it responsibly and not rely on the delusion of abstinence. The longer we keep trying to tell our teens it's wrong for them to do, but perfectly fine for us to do, the longer the problem will persist.

Your religious prejudices aside, the fact is that the convenience store association says the law in TN has reduced teen beer purchases by a third, and more in some towns that have enhanced versions of the law.

It was initiated by the convenience store industry to make the whole process easier. It was simply too difficult for clerks to judge who was legal and who was not, and the penalties were costly.

A year after the law went into effect, the legislature enacted an exemption for customers who obviously look over 50. Stores would not be penalized for not carding seniors.

Last July a new law went into effect that applies universal carding to wine and liquor also.

[Litefoot]

No ID, no liquor - and wrinkles don't count; 'universal carding' the norm now in Tennessee | Local News | Times Free Press

Tennessee made national headlines in 2007 when it became the first state to make store clerks card everyone who bought carry-out beer. The carding requirement was expanded on July 1 to include liquor and wine as part of the new wine-in-grocery-stores bill.

It's the Law here, Don't like it... LEAVE

[2mares]

Originally Posted by tmford87

Interesting discussion. I'm from New Orleans and went to bars regularly from age 18. I never got carded there and honestly I'm not really one that looks old for their age. It was an adjustment moving up here. It really doesn't bother me at all -

I guess I'm biased because we could buy hard liquor through a drive through on a Sunday morning, but I really think that creating this stigma around drinking makes the problem worse. I think if we removed the stigma, we wouldn't have to be so crazy about enforcement. I like to equate it to sex ed in schools - though it may pain us to see them growing up, we need to educate them on how to do it responsibly and not rely on the delusion of abstinence. The longer we keep trying to tell our teens it's wrong for them to do, but perfectly fine for us to do, the longer the problem will persist.

I spent a summer in Mississippi and would drive over the bridge to the drive thru daiquiri shack. I couldn't believe it, just drive right up and get a big ol' cup of alcohol and drive off.

Legal age was 18 when I was growing up and getting into a bar at 16 wasn't hard. I really don't know if there is less underage drinking today even with all the laws. I agree with you on removing the stigma. I think that is a big part of why kids want to drink. I knew a girl from Germany while in college and she just couldn't believe how obsessed we were with carding and drinking age. We all went out to eat and ordered drinks and she didn't have ID so they wouldn't serve her. She thought that was just crazy.

[pythonis]

When I was a server i carded EVERYONE. I didnt care if you were an old lady (i carded a 90 year old once). Why? Because i could lose my liquor serving license (abc card), my job, and yes, a $1500 fine if i served to anyone without ID on them. Is the guest worth all that to me just so they can get a buzz or something? Nope.

[hunterseat]

I'm over 50 and they check my ID when I buy alcohol. I'm in GA. It's the law. Nothing personal. Not an obsession. Just doing their job. I think parents of teenagers appreciate it the most.

[TennesseeRed]

It's actually two different issues wrapped up in one question. Tennessee made it mandatory to show ID for revenue. In TN you must have a valid drivers license or ID to purchase alcohol. That's why people are turned away without ID.
If you don't have your ID with you while buying at a store and husband or wife (or whoever) says oh I have mine, nope not going to get your purchase. Just another example of our no tax in TN.

[Decades]

Tennessee's drinking laws need an update. We have graduated driver's licenses to help ease young drivers onto the roadways, why not graduated drinking laws? Throwing young adults into a college drinking atmosphere with little to no previous drinking experience has created an environment of overindulgence of hard alcohol. Those that don't attend college are more likely to end up using drugs. Why? Drugs are easier to get. My suggestions:

1. Drinking age should be 19. These days most high school seniors are 18, one should be a high school grad before drinking legally.
2. Beer and wine (I am sure there would have to be an alcohol content limit) should be legal for 19 to 21 year old's.
3. Full alcohol drinking rights to those over 21.
4. Parents should be able to legally serve beer and wine to their 16 year old and up children within the confines of their own homes. 29 states currently allow this, Tennessee should also.

Parents that do not drink alcohol have an excellent shot at teaching their children to not drink, parents that do drink have a tougher job. With the drinking age set at 21, and no exemption for minors with parental presence, there is no legal way to teach our children to drink responsibly.